The results of the concours for administrators are now out, and – surprise, surprise – I did not manage to pass. Here’s the extract of the letter:
The selection board for the above competition has now finished marking the pre-selection tests in which you participated. I regret to inform you that although the marks you obtained in these tests were above or equal to the pass mark, you were not amongst the top 630 candidates.
Point B.1 of the competition notice stipulates that only those candidates with the 630 highest marks in the pre-selection tests would be asked to submit a full application with a view to their possible admission to the competition.
Your marks are as follows (1):
Test a): 38.333 /60 (pass mark 30)
Test b): 15.263 /20 (pass mark 10)
Test c): 30.769 /40 (pass mark 20)Total: 84.365/ 120
For your information, the candidates who obtained the 630 highest combined scores had at least 92.611 points.
I would add that the Selection Board’s decision does not preclude you from taking part in any future competitions organised by the European Personnel Selection Office.
It’s beyond me how one can get 15.263 / 20 when there were 40 questions, but anyway, c’est la vie. All the best to all the geeks who know who won the Sakharov prize in the year X or other equally useful everyday facts.
FILE DOWNLOADS
Blog commenter ‘viking’ has made some new test files available for download, and he had also supplied the manual for electronic Reserve Lists. Some additional test files have been provided by Sorina (see comment #1003) – download 342kb, ZIPped. Enjoy!
SOCIAL NETWORKS
If anyone is a member of Facebook there’s the ‘So I won’t be a Commission official’ Facebook Group, and the EU Integration Traveler IQ challenge (you need to add the Traveler IQ Facebook application) – a more fun way to revise for the concours…
NOTE
Due to such an enormous number of comments here I have had to divide the comments function. The latest few hundred comments are below, and all the older comments are archived here. All should work technically now.
Elated,
Covering their arses? It’s quite clear that laureates don’t have any legal right to employment, so why should they litigate?
@Daniel,
Hi, I was also invited for an interview at the ECA in Luxembourg at the end of September (AD 126/08) and they made me an offer a week after. I think it depends on the date that you told them you would be available (I told them that I could start practically immediately) and the general tone of the interview (i.e., what did they tell you at the end, if there are any documents that you still need to bring). Did you already receive your medical test results? What audit groups did you have your interview with?
I think it’s more a matter of administrative issues than a possible negative answer 🙂
Best of luck!
@A
When I said EPSO was “the worst unless someone knows differently” I was only wondering if anyone out there had other examples. Thought it might be a fruitful, maybe even cathartic, subject of discussion 🙂
@ Siana,
In the “old” days (pre-epso) there was practically no limit to expiry dates. I know of one guy who spent nine (!) years on a list. What we are seeing now is the equivalent of a “garage sale”. Before introducing the revamped annual comps, the EU is trying to clear most of the old existing lists of laureates. I guess they plan to abolish them after 2010/2011 and they want to be seen to put in as much effort as possible to recruit current laureates (lord knows they do not have the recruitment marging for this and they knew full well for instance 50% of EU15 AD5 laureates wouldn’t be recruited eventually, but they are probably covering their arses for some of the more querulant laureates that might litigate).
Come on, Misericordia, it is too easy to say that epso is the worst. What about the competitions for the UN? Are they better or worse? The only thing I can say about them is that I have never really found out how to take part in them or if they even exist at all! I did make some research some time ago and found nothing. So it seems to me that they are worse because they are non-existent!
From le Monde Diplomatique:
The only example of a concours procedure worse than EPSO
– unless someone knows differently.
http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2009/08/GOMIDE/17697
(in French)
Did you see EPSO notice about the extension of validity of reserve lists?
It is talking about reserve lists “several years old”.
This means that all the laureates of the “old” reserve lists have to be recruited before starting recruitment from the “new” reserve lists. Which also means that the “new” reserve lists will become even more than several years old. So, we are talking about 3-4 or maybe more years for the lucky ones! I think that there is not anywhere else something like that (public or private sector, national or worldwide level).
EU has the copyright of this system!
I wish you a good discussion on “dogmatic” in which I will not take part. It sounds like E “really knows” what he is talking about….
A dogmatic definition is an extraordinary infallible statement published by a pope or an ecumenical council concerning a matter of faith or morals,
the belief in which is required to all.
Source: wikipedia
E,
“Dogmatic” in which sense?
Of course there are a lot of jobs better that the EU Civil Service… e.g. some careers in the field of consulting, finance, law (for exemple, even if I was a Commission official AD10, I would resign if I get a post as Italian notary… the average revenues of an Italian notary is 430.000,00 Euros/year, and in Northern Italy even higher…).
However, I agree that the EU employees have a very good equilibrium between benefits and private life… 🙂
This site got populated mainly with dogmatic EU employees. Such a pitty.
Actually, I did know a guy that escaped the golden cage. Indeed, he was among the “best people”, …. he was offered an even better deal with some utilities company. Now he’s having fun and making big dineros.
I once did it in my home country, but then again they offered me a very competitive package to lure me into te private sector, were the job was, well more fun…. but also where the hours almost wrecked my marriage.
So yes, the very capable, ambitious singles/divorcees might leave the golden cage to make 15K and more a month; the rest will stay and moan.
Kallas says: “(…) But if you consider that you have 30,000 people, and 200 people leave the system voluntarily per year – of course, in addition to those who retire – but a few hundred people change jobs to take on other challenges, then this raises real questions.”
Actually, it would be interesting to know which people and for which reasons are changing jobs. What kind of other challenges are they taking? Of course I am interested about civil servants changing jobs, and not temporary staff finishing their contracts (they have no choice). If there is really “a few hundred people” leaving the institutions for other challenges, this must be the best people. I know that one of the directors left the EC to join one of the best legal companies in London a few years ago. But who are the rest?
Elated put it well. There were voices here on the forum about the poor quality of the civil servants etc… But what do you want if most of the people join the EU for the sake of heavenly comfort and not hard work, exceptional results or anything of this sort… Certainly there are exceptions in some special units or periods, but the majority of people in ordinary times… forget about it!
Interesting doc, Ruben, though I wouldn’t get my hopes up… besides, now that I have become “part of the problem” I have kind taken to the clique-ish inbreeding and lavish luncheons… leave us be in peace.
@Daniel
They maybe reply….never?
Jon, Kallas has just provided an answer for your failure in the concours: The recruitment policy is “absurd” and must be changed. http://tinyurl.com/ygplzqt
He does not mention that EPSO is already trying to come up with the ultimate solution: a new recuitment system in 2010.
Let’s see how it goes. In the meantime, a blog is always a nice way to deal with daily frustations!!
Hi Nitta,
You spoke about AD5 internal competition for EU10. Do you have the written test?
I’m preparing an EPSO exam in business administration and I would like to have an example of this kind of tests. thank you.
Hi everybody!
I am in the laureate list from the AD/126/08 and I had an interview a few weeks ago at the ECA in Luxembourg.
Does anyone know how long they use to take until they give you an answer? I check my e-mail everyday a lot of times and I am very tired of this anxiety! They told me that they were going to advice all the candidates soon and in fact I know that they have already contacted with some of them to propose a post there. So I am starting to be pessimistic with this one and I am thinking to put in contact with all the DG but my profile is blocked by the ECA so I suppose the only way is to wait…
Daniel
@ A,
That’s even worse then… but again, I made a deliberate choice not to get caught up in that kind of madness… in a sense, people with a PHD / three master’s taking part in a (C)AST are either contributing to some kind of social dumping or the jury panel accepting this is simply crazy as this either means 1) the job is undergraded (social dumping… less pay for the same job this person would have got as an AD laureate) or 2) the candidate is overqualified (and is bound to get bored/leave the job), etc.
I know there’s the IV groups or whatever (never really bothered to familiarize myself with the lingo), but the below passage is quite illustrative of what I mean:
“I did not care that I have two Masters (International relations / Political Strategy and Communication). I passed AST1 secretary competition in 2007, get a job 2 months after the reserve list came out (No lobbying or insider friend). I was “stuck” in a secretariat job during the first year but very soon I get the recognition of my skills. I am still an assistant of course but can be very proud of my job description. In the previous years it was done by advisers. ”
–> person “stuck”, overqualified and bored followed by the same person doing a job that previously commanded an “adviser’s” salary.
Now let the lapidation commence…
A,
I sent you an email with my msn/ skype details earlier on.
Nitta
“I never even considered participating in some (C)AST as I absolutely abhor the idea of having to jump through all sort of hoops in order to prolong my 3-year stay, etc.”?
3-year stay?
Some people struggle to get their three-month and even one-month contracts prolonged! This is perhaps the worst degeneration of the EU administration I have heard of…
@Nitta,
perhaps my last question to you got lost up there. If you still have time/willingness to answer, please do. I will appreciate. Otherwise I will not bother you any more.
@ Nitta,
I can understand your take on things. I probably would have acted likewize in the same circumstances. Then again, I never even considered participating in some (C)AST as I absolutely abhor the idea of having to jump through all sort of hoops in order to prolong my 3-year stay, etc.
As I can see things from you perspective, I will share my perspective. Sitting an open comp with numerous other candidates and a percentile cut-off applying is not a walk in the park, especially not when you notice at the essay stage that three out of four suggested topics are biased toward people already working at the commission. I refer to the Ban papers on relative success rates in the interview stage. Next, a first merit laureate with no “piston” on the inside, born with the wrong passport will be made to beg, beseech, stalk, negotiate, lobby for years…. but heck, every dog gets its day. But yes, this sort of treatment (bordering on humiliation at times) is not inducive to looking kindly upon “internal” comps.
That’s the last yarn I’ll be spinning on that one.
Elated,
I will not shock you with the statistics of AD5 internal (results only out end of Dec):)
It is for temps to become official (meant for the Cabinet, not for us)
I can believe it is annoying but trust me, they did not even made an effort to make people pass. I “lost” several friends who could not make it and now going home. (and deserve better than me based on their work experience)
To those on the forum who are not interested in word skills – sorry! just ignore this discussion and … follow more serious topics like… Irish ‘yes’ and Czech ‘no’, internal concours (I also do not support this practice at all!) etc.
Nitta, thanks! That helps to focus on things that matter.
– begin page numbering starting from page 2
– convert a text into a table (it is indeed rarely done)
What other skills, which could pose problems, are crucial to do the test/assignment well and on time? If you could mention a few more it would be really nice.
Hi,
“I understand that you were improving a pre-typed text on the screen while looking at a corrected version (=final version) provided by epso on paper. Is my understanding correct? ”
Yes, it is correct! You need to know Word application very well in order to finish in time but if you practise at home it is manageable. I had difficulties for example not to have page number on the first page but starting from the second one, I never used it before. I also never used convert text to table. 🙂
@Nitta
You say: “For practical we had 40 minutes to correct a Word document (4 pages) , it was pre-typed on the PC (except one missing paragraph) The tasks was to improve the quality of its layout based on the corrected copy.”
Please tell me: How did you get this corrected copy? I understand that you were improving a pre-typed text on the screen while looking at a corrected version (=final version) provided by epso on paper. Is my understanding correct?
I am having this exam soon, that is why I ask about the details.
Thanks! A
@ Nitta, to me the degree of dificulty is not really about the kind of questions you are presented with, it’s about how good the competition is. If the 2% top percentile score above 29/30, you might get a 27/30 to no avail.
The below figures are actually scarily high (is it an internal comp to pass from contractual to permanent official?)
“Eligible for pre-selection: 163
admited to written test: 88
passed oral: 55”
Anyhows… for some-one who saw things “from the other side”, internal comps (at least where they are meant for levels where comps with outsiders are organized, as with the AD5 internal comp) are a bit… euh dodgy.
PS: yes, I am an asshole 😉
Hi,
I answer here becasue maybe also other people are interested.
I sat 3 AD competition and 3 AST competition in the past few years, so I can compare pre-selection.
For EU more or less I found the same questions coming out (you can find them here – http://www.epsoforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=155&t=657) My brother had AST1 earlier this year and he said 90% of the questions can be found here. What I also advise him to check the institutions on Wiki (since which Treaty, number of members, name of presidents, who appoints them, etc) and the Treaties (when it was signed, basic content) He had no problem with it after this preparation.
Verbal reasoning is exactly the same for AD and AST, I had the same questions coming out randomly of course. Find it a bit strange.
I had one AD competition where numerical was pretty easy (I am a disaster on terms of numbers) but in the last 2 AD5 exam it really took my time. For AST1 I had basically solve one plus one, not the same level as the sample test on EPSO.
For practical we had 40 minutes to correct a Word document (4 pages) , it was pre-typed on the PC (except one missing paragraph) The tasks was to improve the quality of its layout based on the corrected copy. For that they used the same proofreading signs you were referring to on EPSO, I think it is a good idea to have a closer look. I made all the exercise of a EDCL / Word book before the exam and it helped me a lot. Many people were not able to insert a table or highlight it 25% grey color.:))
Statistics for internal competition (AST3 and AD5 still running):
AST1
Requested number of candidate: 170
Applied: 196
Eligible for pre-selection: 163
admited to written test: 88
passed oral: 55
Nitta
Nitta reads/sounds like a pieds-à-terre, straight-shooting lass…. though in all honesty I resent the fact that EU institutions are still organising “internal comps”. It smacks of insider-outsider behaviour (and lord knows that place already has enough of that).
@Nitta,
Again I appreciate that you mentioned some of the essay topics for AST1! That is very helpful. I would have a question concerning the practical part. You are asked to format a MS Word document. Does the test/assignment look like the one given on the epso website under the following link?
http://europa.eu/epso/discover/prepa_test/sample_test/pdf/c-fr_fr.pdf
Or has your test been different? Would you be kind as to send me a copy of your paper to my email address (canterburytales@gazeta.pl)? You can also give me your address here and I will write to you.
Thanks a lot! A
@di
AD and AST preselection questions are very similar (in terms of difficulty and content). There is no question as nonsense as the example you gave. On the other hand you should concentrate on the samples you found. Do expect this kind of questioning. It is not difficult when they ask you the name of the current Secretary General of the Council of the EU. The difficulty is the broad range of issues – from detailed dates of treaties, through characteristics of EU policies to names of politicians, prize winners (Sacharov prize) etc.
@ Nitta
Nitta, are you a real person? 🙂
Yours is one of the messages that I have yearned to read here for a year now.
Still, well done, in case you are an EPSO/HR dept official 🙂
@Nitta
Your comments are very lightening and full of good news, at least for me : Tanks sincerely!!!
Hi Nitta,
I’m applying for Ast 1. My preselection test is in a month and I am really scared and lost in all this infomation. The truth is that I am not sure what I am suppossed to know about the exam. For example, should I know the answer of the questions such as :”Which member state has the largest number of doctors per capita?” 🙁
I found a lot of sample tests but nowhere is written what type of tests are these for Ast1 and what types are for Ad for example.
I would be very grateful if you can help me with some information.
Thanks a lot 🙂
Hi,
I cannot consider myself a loser in term of salaries. As AST1 I got 2652 netto every months and my working hours are 7,5 / week.
Same goes for the job – if you have the potential and the brain you can do everything within the Institutions, even if you passed a secretary competition only.
One of my reason to be here was the wish to work for Europe, I did not care that I have two Masters (International relations / Political Strategy and Communication). I passed AST1 secretary competition in 2007, get a job 2 months after the reserve list came out (No lobbying or insider friend). I was “stuck” in a secretariat job during the first year but very soon I get the recognition of my skills. I am still an assistant of course but can be very proud of my job description. In the previous years it was done by advisers.
We had internal competition (oral exam is still ongoing) which I cannot consider an easy ride. (20 verbal/ 20 numerical without calculator, very difficult ones.) They took the written exam also seriously, many friend of mine did not pass (AD5 temps) They grilled me on the oral exam, 1 hour pure (and deep) EU knowledge. Whoever will pass, really deserve it.
The only regret I have sometimes is when I am in touch with my previous workplace, I miss them a lot. Also true it is difficult to work with the people who are here for ages – zero management skills, many of them (AD and AST grade) are incompetent. I reached the point ones when I was hitting the keyboard with my head and told to my Director- I wish I had my hand broken when I applied for the competition. ( I am very “normal” most of the time.) :))
My advise is if you really want to work for Europe maybe you should consider an AST job as a beginning and continue trying AD competition. The experience really worth it.
just to be absolutely clear – competitions have been organised at AD5 to lower the salary budget. But those in the know are aware that since the 2004 reforms the overall salary/pension burden has actually increased!!! AST grades can now continue up to AST11 (and with certification potentially even higher as ADs), while AD12s (former A4s) can now get promotion up to AD13 (former A3).
the losers? (in terms of careers and salaries) – new AST and ADs. welcome to the EU institutions.
darcy,
thank you for your comment. I wish you luck too.
It would be nice to hear from people who had a positive experience and have already been recruited. I am sure that they exist (don’t they?).
In my case, the competition I passed was organised in two channels. The channel I chose was for EP and Council. So, I suppose that I can be recruited only by them (at least for the 1st year since the publication of the reserve list).
What about age limits? I know EU should not discriminate on the grounds of age, but do you think they really take it into account if the laureate is too young or (as in my case, 40+) rather old?
If you have 5 years between the first announcement of the comp and the actual recruitment, people have plenty of time to gather useful experience 😉
@fd
the average age is higher, not only because the commission may be wants people with more experience, but also because most of the competitions organised within the last few years were for AD5 .(attempt to lower salaries budget or may be not enough places for mid-level officials?) So those who wanted an EU job had to participate in these competitions for junior staff,regardless of how much experience they had. Many will tell you that they’d rather be on a AD7 list, for example.
darcy – best of luck. how old are the people on this board? you know that the average AD5 recruitment age for the Commission is now 35 years old? that means that they are clearly looking for people with a lot of experience. So, if people on this board are lucky enough to have passed an AD concours at a young age, unfortunately the odds of actually making it off the list may be that bit smaller. sorry don’t know the stats for AST concours.
Hi Siana
Indeed the most difficult part is to succeed in the recruitment process. My reserve list has four merit groups. I have been told by many that, being in merit 1 group, I should be recruited within 2-3 months…. yeah… right! As nothing happend I started sending spontaneous applications to HoU of my interest. Then six months into being on the RL a general invitation came from a DG organising recruitment for multiple posts. Of course I went as there were two vacancies perfectly in line with my professional experience and education. The only positive outcome of the meeting was talking to all the other invited laureats. Many of them have already had a few interviews in different DGs, they also have already had the medical examinations and many were waiting for a positive response from DGs where they were interviewed. That made me realize that I should intensify my efforts in finding a suitable vacancy. So I began asking around, calling old friends, building Milau bridges, comfort the distressed, stressed the comforted, and doing all to move from the “you do not sell yourself we do not buy” kinda stage to the interviews’ stage. I am glad that the interviews happen from time to time as they add to the experience. At the same time I am well aware that I do not stand any chance if an internal candidate applies for the same post. I want to believe that I need one more jump now from the interviews stage to “you are hired” stage.
I hope this helps and wish you good luck!
I would really like to hear from people who have positive experience with the recruitment process or from those with pockets full of good luck and willing to lend me some of it.
hilarious! … the EUSSR 🙂 I am surprised I didn’t see any comments there regarding the European army … the Irish “No” side was full of EU army propaganda … when I was reading it, I almost imagined the eurocrats in Brussels with machine guns … …
Have you seen this initiative against Lisbon Treaty?
No comment from me, just the link:
http://www.petitiononline.com/sptklaus/petition.html
What additional salary benefits is a contract agent working in a delegation entitled to? An expat allowance? And an allowance according to the risks of the post? It’s proving difficult to get an idea of the salary a IV CA would make at a post? Is there an allowance for housing costs as well?
Is this basically the same as a CA working in Brussels? That would be bizarre to say the least.
@
I think you read my message out of context…first read the @fd one.
What you imply is not what I wanted to say.
@miriana
In your opinion, the other nationalities have the right to complain from EPSO lack of transparency, but not Romanians and Bulgarians? Strange concept of rights!!
@fd
I don’t find it amusing at all that Romanians and Bulgarians start to complain about the lack of transparency in EU Institutions and not only. As a personal reflection on the matter, Eastern countries have joined the European Union in hope that they will find more transparency which will reflect in their national administrattion system sooner or later.
It seems to me it was a wrong motivation.