The results of the concours for administrators are now out, and – surprise, surprise – I did not manage to pass. Here’s the extract of the letter:
The selection board for the above competition has now finished marking the pre-selection tests in which you participated. I regret to inform you that although the marks you obtained in these tests were above or equal to the pass mark, you were not amongst the top 630 candidates.
Point B.1 of the competition notice stipulates that only those candidates with the 630 highest marks in the pre-selection tests would be asked to submit a full application with a view to their possible admission to the competition.
Your marks are as follows (1):
Test a): 38.333 /60 (pass mark 30)
Test b): 15.263 /20 (pass mark 10)
Test c): 30.769 /40 (pass mark 20)Total: 84.365/ 120
For your information, the candidates who obtained the 630 highest combined scores had at least 92.611 points.
I would add that the Selection Board’s decision does not preclude you from taking part in any future competitions organised by the European Personnel Selection Office.
It’s beyond me how one can get 15.263 / 20 when there were 40 questions, but anyway, c’est la vie. All the best to all the geeks who know who won the Sakharov prize in the year X or other equally useful everyday facts.
FILE DOWNLOADS
Blog commenter ‘viking’ has made some new test files available for download, and he had also supplied the manual for electronic Reserve Lists. Some additional test files have been provided by Sorina (see comment #1003) – download 342kb, ZIPped. Enjoy!
SOCIAL NETWORKS
If anyone is a member of Facebook there’s the ‘So I won’t be a Commission official’ Facebook Group, and the EU Integration Traveler IQ challenge (you need to add the Traveler IQ Facebook application) – a more fun way to revise for the concours…
NOTE
Due to such an enormous number of comments here I have had to divide the comments function. The latest few hundred comments are below, and all the older comments are archived here. All should work technically now.
Hello everyone,
I just received the following results to the preselection stage for EPSO/AD/147/09-RO – AD5 Romanian language – public administration:
“I would like to inform you that you obtained sufficient marks to be included among the candidates invited to submit a full application.
After examining the documents and supporting evidence submitted, the Selection Board will draw up a list of those candidates with the best results in the admission tests who fulfil all the eligibility criteria specified in point I.B of the Notice of Competition.
your marks in the admission tests are as follows:
Test a): 7/10 (pass mark: 5)
Test b): 14.667/20 (pass mark: 10)
Total: 21.667/30”
I know that for this stage there were 1416 candidates admitted of which a number of 354 will be invited to the written test.
In your experience, do I stand a chance with this score? And also, do they take into consideration your education and experience in judging your application if the notice of competition only mentioned as eligibility criteria the citizenship and university diploma?
Thank you.
@ A,
I’m sure the comment is well meant, but the theatrics are part of the dramatic persona (oops, there I go again). Sorry mate/gal, I have to “go low-brow” in my output as a professional; perhaps I’m compensating for that on this forum. 😉
If you don’t mind, I won’t comment. I am recognizable enough as it is.
@frustrated
Well, I am sure you are right in many points. But believe me, I have just gone quickly through your comments and … without some help I am just not able to decode your messages. Serioulsy, I do read what you write, but more phrasing your thoughts in a bit simpler way would be helpful.
So what’s your status now on the eu market? Are you closer to the job? Good luck!
My ultimate wish is that one day we have another Salem witch hunt (such as the one we had in the post-Cresson / Kinnock era) headed by a stolid anglosaxon eurosceptic malleus maleficarum. We need another dominican inquisition. This time around the internet will abound with leads on various malpractices that can easily be followed up by some of the McKinsey black suits when they perform an external audit. Let’s hope it’ll turn out to be a post mortem.
I am sure the crisis climate will only contribute to the general malaise, ideal feeding ground for demagogues of motley feather and ill fortune.
@ law25,
I already posted once about FAO, UN, WHO and the likes. I find the EU recruitment procedures to be more insiduous precisely because they play up equality and transparency on their website. With the former organisations it is commonly understood outsiders don’t stand a chance, but the EU concours will atract throngs of naive people inevitably ending up cynical and frustrated.
Again, I would urge DG admin (they do read me apparently as they updated their text on the ethnicity report and I would hope my constant nagging about the flagging procedures not being open to scrutiny (and pointing out they were in breach of their own privacy&information directive) helped to install the automatic procedure in the epso profiles) to delve into their personnel records and analyze which impact nationality, gender, merit group, previous employment with the commission (contractual, stagiaire), etc. have on the average time-to-recruitment (if any). This way people can quickly get a ballpark estimate of their real-life chances.
Too hot too handle probably, but they got me on their back now and I’m a very dogged curmudgeon, lots of time and a very very bad loser.
@frustrated
The UN and other international organisations are much worse… At least at the EU, you need to go though a concours which gives a certain “objectivity”, even though what may happen once you are in the reserve list is less “objective”. In any case, the fact that there is a concours makes the procedure much more transparent and fair than any other international organisation.
Another update on the ethnic quota (formally known as the “report due by the end of 2007”).
It seems DG admin finally updated its faulty timelines (untimely vault lines)
“Racial discrimination of any kind is prohibited under the Staff Regulations and the mix of staff in the EU Institutions has to reflect racial and ethnic patterns of EU citizens. We are currently working on a policy document on the subject.”
Ad calenda graeca on should hope 😉
@ Breach,
There are commission officials in charge of certain vacancies that are even unaware that external laureates do not have access to SYSPER II vacancies. “We get plenty of letters applying for specific positions from laureates. We thought they had access to our vacancies.” This implies they do not even check the reserve lists and only consider laureates that already have a foot in the door. I have never seen public sector hiring practices more conductive to jobbery, patronism, simony, cronyism, etc. than those of the commission.
@A
I don’t start at the EP until July, so am frantically busy organising move to Lux at present… looking forward to it now that it all seems a bit more real 🙂
Good luck with your efforts…
@susanna
Thanks. What’s the other forum to see the scores in health concour? Once you learn the minimum score, please let me know. Good luck!
@ A
yes, it is lower indeed..
hopefully someone who didn’t pass will say what the minimum was.
But still, there is the BIG cut off coming up after screening the applications, so it all really depends how many people had a high score and how high..
Fun fact: I just signed up for Competition EPSO/AD/163/09 – AD6 – Administrators in the field of date protection (AD 6), but it looks it has to do more with agriculture than what EDPS do ;-]
Lemme throw in my 0.02 eurocents, based on my experience. Being proactive does help, but for the larger part it can be an exercise in frustration. It’s best if you have a buddy with the Commission with access to SYSPER2 (the internal system where posts are first announced). You can then send a generic unsolicited application saying that you are very much interested in the position because, bla bla bla, mentioning which reserve you are on, what’s your full name and of course attaching your EPSO CV. Please, do keep track of what you sent to whom for which position though. Next is the fun part — you start sending these emails and a) Nothing happens b) You get a reply they don’t care (either civil or otherwise) c) You get a generic receipt confirmation — we’ll keep you in mind. Then (it can be months) you MAY be contacted with an offer of an interview (which happened to me). So yeah, it’s better than just waiting until the apocalypse without doing a thing, but in case nothing happens don’t despair — just keep doing it. Hope that helps.
@Carmen
Thanks for the feedback.
It’s a surprising indication to take into account. I’ve alwais been told that it is very difficult to get a call if you’re not proactive. Btw, I only sent an application to the DG I would like to work for and they gave me a prompt and kind reply to aknowledge me that they are keeping my application.
So, the advice is that when you are on reserve list is to patiently wait without undertaking any action?
@susanna
What do you mean by saying “So far the lowest I’ve seen for ad/145 on other forums was 20.333”? Do you mean that someone those who got 20.333 were still invited to send their application? This would mean that the required minimum was lower. Is this right? Which forum have you visited if I may ask?
Yes, I am also aware of the problems with having the right qualifications. I have a legal degree. Do you know how to prepare for the written exam?
@ A
So far the lowest I’ve seen for ad/145 on other forums was 20.333.
Im more worried about what they consider to be a relevant diploma for that domain though. Many people dont make it to the next stage as their qualifications are not considered to be relevant enough. Mine is in public administration, and the domain is policy and legislation. What’s yours?
@participants of concour AD5/145/09 food safety
The results of the preselection tests are out. Do you know what was the minimum number of points required in order to be invited to send the full application?
Thanks!
@Kiwi
Nice to see you on the forum again 🙂
So how’s life at the EP? Are you already there? Do you like it? And your move to Lux went fine?
All the best!
I was told that one could apply for a transfer to another institution after 3 years… although that’s not my intention.
@Grub
If you are a F. and you participate to an internal concours you can be moved for sure, no discussion about this.
There are several cases. And it depends a lot from where you are moving to where.
In the agencies for example it depends from their rules, some agencies do not publish competitions for EU internals, some others do it for few positions.
Finally, I have seen people which couldn’t move to other places because they were in key roles, and the commission (for a reason or another), was blocking their transfer. This is a side effect when you do something very useful for the community 🙂
I will not ask you in which part of the EU institutions are you staying and why you want to move. 🙂
@Stefano
So as a Functionaire I can’t definitely transfer from one Institution to another and I can’t apply to internal competition of other institution I can just put myself on leave on personal base. I thought that as a Functionaire I could move everywhere.
@Glub
Yes you can, you can be “seconded” or your put yourself on “leave on personal base” on the first job, and in the meanwhile you accept the second. In this case your first position is frozen, and the second is the one.
In both the cases I think there are certain deadlines to respect, the “leaving on personal base” has some limitations in terms of time.
If you ad Functionaires, you should be able to maintain the grade. It doesn’t work the same with agencies. So depends a lot from case to case.
I think so. A “transfert”. but you would have to ask people who have done it.
You probably have to look in diff. places if they are looking for an official and then apply.
@ Stefano
Do you know if it’s possible for an official to move from one institution to another (for example from Coucil or Parlament to the Commission ?)
Thanks
@Carmen and Ms. Question
Carmen is right, DG ADMINs can add only one position associated to a person at the same time. If by mistake you accept 2 positions in the worst case you will get in big troubles. The system is checking your tax number in your country of origin.
If you do the same thing 2 times, DG ADMIN will stop and will send a response to the second DG/EU Body, but they will inform also the EU Body that you already had another position (which has a side effect, as you can imagine).
The normal procedure is more or less the following:
1 – You get the person;
2 – You put the person on your establishment plan (the position is locked for you at that stage);
3 – You send a forma act to DG ADMIN which create your personal number;
4 – After a first screening, they will tell you if everything is ok.
The procedure can take also 2 months (a lot of papers from HoU to Director General, to other EU Offices, especially for step 2….)
Anyway, on the end the rules are very easy, if you create problems, and you get more money (it happened to some colleagues of mine) the EU Commission could do 2 things:
1 – You could formerly suspended if it recognized that you are guilty of bad conduct;
2 – If case 1 do not apply, you will need to refund the Commission, which is entitled to get also the legal interest on the not due sums.
So my suggestion is not to play with the commission rules.
Stefano
@Stefano, thanks.
@Ms. Question.
The thing is that once you say yes to an informal offer, the unit starts the recruitment procedure. They do some stuff inside their DG and afterwards they ask DG ADMIN to process your recruitment, and afterwards DG ADMIN sends the official offer. I doubt DG ADMIN would process your recruitment for two different jobs at the same time and send you two official letters. Probably it would inform both units that you accepted another job, so maybe both change their mind about recruiting you. I don’t know for sure that it works like this, it’s just a guess. Actually, the HoU asked me to promise I will take the job before they started all these procedures, because they did not want to waste time with me in case I decided later to reject it. I think they usually do it like this because it takes time and effort to do all the paperwork. But the bad thing is that a candidate has to promise something while they can still change their mind.
@Jepson
From my experience, lobbying is not useful. I sent a lot of letters and I got very few replies. Some told me they don’t have vacancies, but some others told me a bit aggressively that I should wait to be contacted instead of lobbying. Only one unit contacted me because of my lobbying activity. So I would say don’t do it, it’s a waste of time, unless you find a place that you really like and if you really think you are a very good candidate for that job.
Hi friends, very nice to read that someone is receiving calls from the castrelex08 list (good luck!). I also am on that list (infrastructure adviser) and I have been recently included on a AD5 reserve list (…laureat available for any….).
Could someone (maybe internals) give general indication on how to manage Lobbying and pro-active search? Is it just to send via email some CVs to the institutions or there is something more that we can do? When someone is on a ResList, is it polite to send references and search direct contacts? Any hints is welcome, thanks in advance.
@Carmen
In your case DG Admin should send you the letter of intent. The procedure is not so long, I wonder you have not yet received.
The letter id intent basically tells you that you are invited to present a day for taking up duty and to sign the contract. In principle they tell you what will be your first working day.
I think they are fixing the grading and other problems with entitlements (which could be done also after…. But ok).
I wonder like they work. Until you don’t have a letter of intent you are not a EU Staff… From that point you should have a personal number, this is why it is so important.
Stefano
that is how it would work in the private sector. What if you would have accepted both and wait and see when the offer comes? First come first serve. In this case it is too late. But I wonder, if they can juggle around with people, we should have the freedom to do the same. Or tell one of them that you need time to think about it, and need say two weeks. I don’t know if this is possible. I am sure there is more than one person saying yes to two just in case.
@Stefano,
One more question:
Is the letter of intent the same thing as the formal offer? Who sends it: the HoU or DG ADMIN? It is a bit confusing for an outsider.
Thanks
@Stefano,
I asked for the letter of intent and they say I should get it soon. It seems it takes some time until DG ADMIN processes the documents. I don’t know how things work, but at least this is what they say.
For the time being, I do not think any HoU was incorrect, so the names of the DG’s don’t matter. They just do their best to get the candidate they like. What I really dislike is this asymmetry between the Commission and the candidates. A job promised by the Commission to a candidate does not mean anything before the formal documents are issued, and this takes time. However, a candidate must choose between two offers before getting these papers, because they will not process your recruitment documents for two jobs at the same time. So this leaves us exposed to somebody changing his mind on the way, while we refuse other offers. Correct me if I am wrong. I would complain about the way the recruitment is done. I think an offer should be binding from the moment they tell you about it.
@Mr Question,
I’ve been on the reserve list for 2 years and nobody paid attention to me, even though I lobbied a lot. Some time ago I gave it up, and suddenly they became interested.
@Carmen
As Ms Question told you, transparency = 0. I would like to know what are the DGs just to open a complain with the right authority. Anyway just wait for the formal papers, it is very important that you receive the letter of intent now, ask for it as soon as possible.
The second HoU was not incorrect, there is no doubt that also the EU commission is managed as a market. I could complain about the fact that there is no coordination, which means, in principle, that those people were wasting tax payers money trying to convince a newcomer to decide for a DG instead of another. This is not the right way….
But it is how it works, people never learn.
Have a nice day.
Stefano
Carmen,
I hope you soon have a contract signed and relax a bit. Transparency= 0
How long have you been waiting on a list?
you must be just what is in fashion in 2009.
Carmen,
you should ask the “second” head of unit to write you an email about what he had said about the “first” head of unit earlier (his guesses that the first offer might not be serious etc.), then ask for clarification head of human resources or another person. At least someone would understand that he acted stupid.
There are always tricks, little and big, there. Have you read about the Commission appointing the head of its delegation in Athens, then the EU Civil Service Tribunal annuling this decision recently?
Incorrect behaviour!
@Stefano
Thanks. I already have the first HoU confirmation by email, and the second one will not give me the job anymore.
It’s just strange to hear that these dirty tricks are done in the Commission, and it even stranger to hear it from a HoU that I don’t have any relationship with. I trust the Commission less and less.
I don’t know if my profile is good. I’ve beeen rotting on a reserve list for years, and nobody cared. Now a lot of units are interested in me out of a sudden.
@Carmen
It is quite strange that an HoU does a similar thing. Probably you have a very good profile, should happen something, I hope you have an E-Mail saying the same thing.
Honestly you shouldn’t have any problem, but just in case, ask to the first HoU to send you a confirmation E-Mail (I hope you already have it).
Anyway if you change your mind, I hope that the second will offer you a job anyway.
Regards.
Stefano
Hi.
I have accepted a job offer, then I declined a second one. Both offers were by phone or email and I have not received any formal offer yet. The guys that made the second offer try to convince me to accept it instead of the first one. They say that the first offer might not be serious, that many times the HoU offer a job to more candidates and afterwards they decide quietly whom they wish to hire. Have you ever heard about this? I think theoretically it is possible, because an offer is not binding for them before they send the official papers. But do you think they really do it? It is quite unfair to do this.
N,
thanks for writing again. Yes, I know what you mean by in. It’s easier then.
I’ll see how it goes further with the delegations… they seem to be a hard cake.
A
@A
My field is Finance and there any always people needed to work for EU Agencies…The same as Administration/Procurement/Budget/Human Resources. These fields are the top in the list for people being hired in Brussels and elsewhere. Have a look at the EPSO website, on TA/CA positions at Agencies. It’s not that difficult to get in. Once you are in, many doors open. Even for..Delegations (at least finding useful info for future recruitment, if you know what I mean).
N,
you asked about the field. It was good governance for me. No contact at all from anyone so far.
What other job are you taking within the EU?
A.
N,
thanks for your ray of hope! Until now, the only comments I heard was that those exams were made for insiders that are already working there. As you say, you do need to learn a third language once you are hired.
Good luck to you too
@Ms Question
It was the CAST2008. I was contacted a couple of months after the results this last October. I didn’t expect it so soon to be honest..that’s why I accepted another job (hopefully within the EU). As for the indefinite, yes, I know people who have been living as CAs for a long time..So, once you get lucky and go to a place you really enjoy you have chances. Ah, just a remark: you have to speak a third language, there is some kind of rule for that, I am not sure how exactly it works though, I know people who have been studying for a third language (mother tongue+language 1+language2) for this purpose. So, you have to have passed a CAST or something in the meanwhile (during the renewal or even before to be renewed as well), have a third language and I guess being offered the position, I am not entirely sure the procedure. But yes, it is possible. Your profile is quite broad and I think there were many positions advertised (like mine Finance Advisor), so I think you have good chances. Also, the languages help.If you speak the local language, of course you are preferred from another candidate who doesn’t. But again everything is so relative and uncertain, so no specific rule applies..
Good luck!
N.
Dear Michel,
What was the question you answered on test b?
Rgds.
Dear Michel,
Sorry to hear you didn’t pass, may I be so bold to ask what the choice of subject you took on test b was?
Recently I missed 1 point to be included in the list! I requested to review my written tests and to annul 3 really messed up questions. After 2,5 months finally I got a “standard reply” that “the Selection Board wishes to emphasise that the marking was carried out by two markers independently, following strict guidelines set out by the Selection Board. Candidates were identified only by a secret number in order not to divulge their identity. The Selection Board – again on the basis of the secret number – took into account the comments/observations made by the markers and subsequently determined the score to be awarded. After having re-examined your test, the Selection Board confirms the mark.”
and regarding question..
“Concerning questions of written test a), the Selection Board re-examined these questions and considers that the candidates possessed all the necessary information in order to give the correct reply. Consequently, the Selection Board decided to maintain these questions.”……..and that’s all folks!!!!
long live the transparency!
and then you read and laugh…….
EPSO Values
Integrity : We trust each other to act with honesty and to treat all stakeholders fairly and equitably, using open and transparent procedures
Ambition :EPSO strives to constantly improve and obtain positive results. We are innovative and dynamic, and committed to achieving our full potential
Professionalism :EPSO conducts selection procedures in a fair and efficient manner, using best practices and ensuring quality and customer satisfaction through its dedicated and highly qualified staff
Quality service :EPSO consistently provides the client with excellent standards of service in a timely manner
N.
were you contacted after passing RELEX CAST 2008 or one before?
I did the admin. officer.
You are absolutely right. Choosing popular places is actually quite foolish because they are already taken which leaves you with less opportunities. You are better off choosing only unpopular places. Do you think you have a chance of an indefinite if you passed the Relex and after renovation?
@A and Ms Question
I totally agree. The choice of countries is something completely random, based on personal preferences, there is absolutely no sense of wanting to change in the space of 6 months for..family reasons. You change because you are frustrated of not being contacted!!And if you don’t have a choice, you just do it as playing in a lottery. The CA positions there are for 3 years I think with a possibility of renewal and after the second renewal you can become indefinite (if you have passed a CAST,that is), so there might be countries that appear in the list for purposes of…decoration..
Apart from that, I know that for “popular” countries the positions are given already to insiders. It is logical, it happens everywhere. That’s why I say that timing and luck is everything. We all have more or less the same qualifications, but not all of us the same luck and…”friends”.
For me, I got a reply from DEL-3 in Central America. Yes, it was a pitty, but on the other hand it was not my first choice and I was really not ready for it right now (I have another job).
May I ask for which profiles you competed?
N
on the survey….
I did the survey today. it does not leave you much choice of expression besides the last bit.
I agree totally
I agree somewhat…?
I neither agree nor disagree…
what kind of answers do they expect back?
I somewhat think it is too vague
Michel,
I had the exact same experience. In fact they can do what they want working like this. I got also a copy of my text without any comment. I wonder to what extent the answers of the candidates are really treated anonymously, and I suppose their way of working has something to do with quota’s of succesful candidates per country. In my case I laid down a complaint to the European Ombudsman to whom I complained also about the extremely long time period of response by the Commission (making impossible a succesful complaint as the next round of Commission exams has already passed). More frustrating for me was that the Ombudsman was even slower in their response and that they took over almost literally the opinion of the Commission. Actually, I felt like Don Quichot fighting against the windmills ……………
@ law25 and Ms. Question
Concerning the part c) from a written exam – the evaluators are all translators in the Commission. They will give their opinion on:
– language knowledge – vocabulary, spelling, grammar, syntax etc..
– structure – introduction, body (paragraphes), conclusion – VERY IMPORTANT!!!
The subject choosen is not important at all! Of course you should write concerning the subject but no any technical knowledge will be tested.Only the language knowledge counts. And they are really very strict on this…….