The sheer number of comments at the main post ‘So I Won’t Be A Commission Official‘ has been causing problems, so all the old comments are here instead, and hence searchable.
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Hi all,
I can share my experience… I am in CAST27 FIII group Finance/Accounts officer. I did not send to anyone my CV or made any calls. I just registered my CV in EC web site. But as I understand my profile was chosen amongst others CAST27 laureates, not from the EC web site. I have received an enquiry if I would be interested in the position. I gave my positive answer and later (after about a month) have received and invitation to interview. Almost the same day after an interview, I was given the answer. After two months I had medical check-up and now waiting for the final offer. And hope there will not be any reasons not to send it to me….
@Stefano
Nice to hear from you, old friend! I was amazed that you still have a look at this blog (hey, I doubt that even Jon Worth reads all the comments!!!).
Have a nice time there where you are! Send a postcard from there whenever you have some time ๐
@marco, I would definitely not advise you to raise the question of your own but I think you will not have much choice as they will probably confront you with a direct question if you are taking part in another EU recruitment procedure. And lying about that is not exactly the best way to start your TA career.
During my interview (which was long before my reserve list was published) I said that I have come to the last round of the EPSO comp but the results were not known yet (although they were in fact). And then the director asked me what I would do if, after I start working for them, I am offered a perm position in Brussels. I did not have much room for manoevring…
I was nevertheless offered the job but I refused it, partly because it is a much lower grade and position than that which I could start based on the perm list, and partly because I did not want to go through the drama of the relocation process twice in a relatively short period (I thought then that the recruitment for the perm positions would proceed much faster). Now I have my second thoughts about it. Maybe I took the wrong decision. Anyway, good luck to you!
@stefano, how exactly are the capabilities to work in an international environment assessed? Do they prefer candidates who have work experience outside their home countries? This is a pretty standard phrase from most recruitment interviews but how can they actually establish the lack of such capabilities?
Dear Kostas and dear All,
probably I’m one of the few people which succeded to find a position as TA at one of the EU Agencies.
I started 3 months ago, and noew I’m getting the first probation report which I assume will be quite positive and I’m happy for this.
Let me say, usually I read a lot of things about EPSO and I understand most of them, but EPSO is not the only problem. As someone explained in the past, if the EU institutions flag someone, then no one at EPSO can say anything.
I don’t know so much about availability at RELEX, also if we are part of the EU institutions, we have the same access as you to all these information, anyway I must admit a thing: the cases in which not prepared candidates pass a competition are few, so keep in mind that there is a clear commitment to get prepared people.
About the question of nationality, in my agency there are more greek and Romanian than Italian people (I’m Italian, as most of you know). I’ll not complain about this, if they are prepared and they are better than someone else, they are welcome to join to our agency,
I would like that all people keep in mind that it is not so easy to get a post and that a lot of factors must be taken into consideration.
You can be the best laureates all over the world, but if you are unable to demonstrate that you are able to work in an internationl environment, then you will never get a chance.
Knowledge of EU instititutions and people is always welcome, but not essential, if you are on top of your specific field, probably you are also able to get a post at the EU institutions.
By the way, I’ve also seen people who were refusing a post to our agency. So, let me say, while many people send bad opinions, some others refuse an incredible opportunity. I see a funny balance in this, anyway, I’m proud to be in an EU Agency, I wish you all you to get a post and to enjoy the EU world from the inside.
Stefano
@lia
do you suggest it is preferably not to tell at an interview for temporary agent that you are on a reserve list for perm position?
can i ask what was the outcome of the interview?
i am a laureate too and i intend to apply for a TA.
thanks
@lia
As far as I know, CA (contract agents) cannot be converted to permanent officials and their contracts can be prolonged once only. I am not sure, as I have never been offered such a position.
TA (temporary agents) start with a temporary contract (for one to three years period) and after one prolongation (for three to five years) the contract becomes indefinite. This is what my agency explained to me about my contract.
@ Lia,
reserve lists take ages to expire. do not worry for that.
@mik, this seems really to be the best approach. I also applied for a temp post at an agency but at the interview they expressed doubts about my commitment with” you will probably resign and leave us if you are offered a perm post in Brussels”. Moreover, they told me that they do not work with perm contracts so I could not hope to convert me into a permanent some time in the future.
I was wondering something else. If you start as a CA and during your initial contract the EPSO list expires. Do you still keep the chances of getting converted from a temporary to a permanent official?
Hi guys,
I would like to share my experience with EU institutions:
I am in the reserve lists for AD46/47 and CAST27 and no one ever contacted me.
But the last two years I have sent documents for about 7-8 TA position and have attended 4 or 5 interviews in different agencies. The last application was successfull and I am starting work in Brussels next week.
The whole recruiting process was absolutely standard: I sent the required documents by mail, in two months time the agency invited me for a first interview, one month later – for a second one and medical check and two weeks after that I received an offer. The whole process took less than 5 months and I didn’t contact anybody to lobby for myself.
I think the non-permanent positions posted in the EPSO site are the fastest and easiest way if you want to start work for the EU institutions. The contracts are for a fixed period initially but after two prolongations they become permanent ones.
I am not sure that a parallel can safely be made between invitations for jobs under CAST and the Open Competitions…I myself got an interview invitation even BEFORE the specialised tests of CAST27, but after succeeding in the concours it’s all silence…
Hi Kostas!
I’m still here, but still as an observer. For the new-comers, a bit of history:
I passed the ICT FGIII test, but I’m a GIS profile.
I was contacted once by the Commission for a facilities management ICT job interview, but I declined the invitation.
Since then, I’ve managed to get back to EU-projects (before I used to work for the ETC-LUSI). I’ve been hired by a GIS-Consultancy Spanish company.
At this moment, I consider having passed CAST27 as an advantage. Now in the case an EU institution participating in a EU project I’m currently working on wants to hire me, it’s easier. But I guess you need to be patient. And knowing someone who has worked before with yo, definitely helps.
Best,
Oscar
@ milda
as i am in the same category – relex pol adv – i wd be v interested to know whether you wrote any emails or made any calls before you got invited to interview ? or did the invite just come out of the blue ?
@Kostas
I haven’t sent a single letter to anyone ๐
The only emails I sent were to Heads of the delegations I was interested in. And all I received there were negative replies.
I think this Blog is only for people waiting for the call. All others “disappear” after some time. Where is Stefano, or Oscar, or Andreea? Have they got a new job in EU or not? How they feel now? Do they like it? Is their life changed?
@obnoxious, @Milda,
Congrats to both of you. Please answer a question that we all have. Have you actually sent hundreds of e-mails to HR and HoU before you get your invitations?
@obnoxious
Congrats! Good luck with the interview (if you want to go to Angola), You do bring some hope to us hopefuls…
๐
Riviere (and others insterested in CAST27 RELEX), fyi, I just received my first email from DG RELEX asking me if I’m interested in a job at a delegation.
I passed the CAST27 FGIII exam, in the administration field.
The job they’re telling me about is not in my favourite area in the world, it is in Angola (Western Africa). I would have preferred to get an interview for a job in South-East Asia, but oh well…At least they’re using the CAST27 lists, which is better than what I hoped, looking at this board regularly ๐
About the CAST RELEX posts; I am wondering how it works in the Commission. Do their rotation schemes work so that people normally leave at the end of the summer, meaning that new posts should open up for autumn? Or isn’t it like that at all?
Congratulations Milda.
May I ask what CAST 27 profile you are?. I am on the list of Relex Cast 27 Political Mattera Advisor but have received no invite to interview yet.
@Milda, that’s because you are in a different boat. You are already seeing the coast. And from our boat there is no sight of land whatever…
I also think that its useful to have at least a bit of self criticism. I also know a lot of people who are confident that without knowing anyone inside the company it is impossible to get a good job… I personally have got all the jobs without any protection. Also there were some which I didn’t get, althought thought I am very very suitable for them. About EU institutions so could say only that I have succeded in CAST 27, was invited for interwiew and already wating for formal offer. And all communications I had were very professional. So I can’t agree with frustrated…
@AD, do you mean that once you have sent around your CV+cover letter to all DG’s and you have had no or a negative answer, you think you have blown your chances? It could be that they did not have “your” vacancy at that moment but this can still come (the idea about the “spring peak” seems quite plausible). In case they don’t have a vacancy they don’t keep your details, so you should persist and contact the DG’s again in, let’s say, a month. Well, that’s really close to “harassing”, especially if you pursue them also on the phone, but what choice are we left with?
I also agree that the best approach is to apply for actual vacancies. But how do we get info about them? I am trying to reach the HR staff in a DG and ask this specific question. They have no reason to deny us this info.
@frustrated, I am very happy for you. Congratulations!The private sector can be much more rewarding in terms of job satisfaction at least. I am also heading that direction. It is a pity that I invested so much time and energy in this “EU endeavour” while I could have pursued a much clearer (and probably more rewarding) path in the last 1.5 years. I also made the mistake not to ask EPSO not to publish my name – now any potential employer can google me and decide that I would not be committed to a job he could otherwise have offered me.
It’s an affidavit where your former employer states that you indeed worked for them in X capacity from date to date.
@nervous and mik
thank you.
Could someone tell what is a รขโฌลstatement of employmentรขโฌย and what are รขโฌลcertificates from employersรขโฌย ?
Thank you
@ Lia…
The last mail I sent to a HoU got forwarder around 100 times, then the whole “roman de fleuve” got printed out by some secretary and some director signed a letter stating I should list my CV at the eCV-portal…. which I had already done almost a year before ๐
This people are a-holes. I signed with a nice multinational and I know now what to think of the commission… they are a-holes who are unaccountable, cost me tax money and had me wait needlessly for over 2 years. Good thing those headhunters are persistent, because naive fool I am, I would have waited for ever.
The deal with the new outfit got brokered in less than a month and the package is superb… my advice for any-one with a spine: get a real job and every time you meet some Eu official in the rest of your life, insult them.
cheers
RELEX – HOW DOES ONE ASCERTAIN IN WHICH DUTY STATIONS THERE ARE (OR SOON WILL BE) VACANT POSTS ??
Fru’s points are valid in my experience: sending a ‘speculative’ covering letter plus CV surely has the possibility of raising one’s chances IF ONE IS SENDING IT TO THE RIGHT PLACE – ie somewhere which currently has (or shortly will have) a vacancy appropriate to one’s qualifications and experience.
BUT – HOW DOES ONE ASCERTAIN WHERE THOSE DUTY STATIONS / WORKPLACES ARE?
Lets be honest – if you are the Head of a Delegation overseas or workplace Section in Brussels you probably receive tens if not hundreds of speculative applications every month. If you are aware that you simply have no vacancies either currently or in the near future then it would be almost a dereliction of duty to waste time replying on an individual basis to each hopeful (but hopeless) one, however much sympathy you might have for the applicants. Especially when there is a different Department (EPSO) whose duty it is to process job apps. and which has stated quite clearly to all applicants that they should NOT send applications to individual Sections or Delegations.
And if you DO have a vacancy coming up there are ALWAYS many times the number of excellent applications for interesting and well-paid posts than there are posts available.
So how does one – as an applicant hopeful – square that circle ? It can only be by sending a CV / Covering Letter which are individually tailored to an ACTUAL as opposed to an hypothetical vacancy.
But how can one ascertain where those vacancies are or will be?
Anyone with inside knowledge of how I ascertain where / when there might be vacancies for Political Affairs or Legal Officer posts in Spanish or Portuguese speaking country Delegations (or NYC of course ! ) is most welcome to post here or get in touch !!
In general – lets have less griping, more practical hints-exchanging and more realism: there will be HUNDREDS of applications for any interesting post – HUNDREDS ! And a good many of them will be strong applications as well. So there does not have to be a EuroConspiracy of Evil for nearly all of them to be unsuccessful.
We all think we’re uniquely strong / well qualified – but we’re not. Even on an objective basis the competition is stiff. And even apart from ‘who you know’ being a factor – so also is luck !
!! SUERTE, CHAVALES !!
Hello everyone,
I am on a temporary agent reserve list of DG Tren.
Today I had the same experience: my e-mail sent to a head of unit was deleted without being read. I try to stay positive though: 3 others opened it plus HR as well. I didn’t get a negative answer either.
Calling the heads of deparments: I feel very weird about it. What would I say after he/she got my mail? If I were that person I would feel I am harassed and they don’t give me time to think things through. And may be angry.
Others who did that said they had good experiences with calling them. What do you think?
It also feels very funny for me that I have to apply for positions because going through the procedure I already sent a cover letter and a cv-like form as well. (had to be filled in)
Anyway, I was strongly advised to do that. It is impossible to get in unless you show yourself in a way. A guy got in just before the list expiry but had been given the hint that there was a job opening at that time at that department where he finally sent an application. He prepared for that special field.
So it is very useful if you know someone already working in the instituiton. That person can check – something like an intranet- where there are job opportunities posted and he may advise you what to prepare for.
To Marco:
You can start this TA position and your contract will be transformed into a permanent one later. I supose they are not hiring you just for a year and would like to keep you after that.
TA positions are the path for the instituitions to find employees on their own, and they prefer this way.
@Elena
Thanks for the advice!
No, you won’t loose your place on the reserve list and if, in the meantime, you are proposed a permanent post, your contract as temporary agent will be cancelled to enable you to assume the more favourable contract. That is what I’ve been told when I asked the Commission the same question.
If the institution where you’ll work as contractual has a free position matching your profile as laureate of EPSO AD5 open competition, they can offer it to you, and you’ll have all the chances on your inside and probably will be prefered in comparison with someone outside.
I understand now why the laureates’ list is called “reserve list”: it is because it is really a reserve and not a main source of officials … they are looking first among people already working in the institutions, and if nobody is matching or willing, they turn back to the reserve list …. so, I wish you success as contractual!
Could someone tell me: I think I might stand a chance for a temporary agent position. if I get it will I loose my place on the reserve list (AD5-epso) and thus being obliged to pass another concurs? Or they might consider making me permanent as having already passed a concurs (the TA position is a AD5 one).
Thanks.
@breach,Lia, sebastian, AD
I agree with breach and Lia. you can’t just act like they have done so far. that is, if you are an institution that boasts to recruit some of the very best and expects to attract them… and that’s also returning to an earlier
discussion on the “professionalism” of some EPSO and other departments’ employees. you can’t expect excellence if you do not project excellence in whatever you do. they do offer the prospective of an interesting job and career path as well as financial benefits. yet, if you are an institution that wants to command respect for what it does and the people in it, then you should treat the others with the same respect, even when those others appear to be still on the outside looking in.
but maybe we, coming from fairly corrupt states that have yet little pretense to full democratic structures and an accountability culture, are still in delusion that things may work better elsewhere. i.e., that meritocracy and fairness rather than nepotistic practices are the norm.
maybe we need to wake up to the “reality” to which sebastian is hinting: intensive lobbying, which may well include, as others have suggested, having someone inside to push you through too; accepting that public institutions give a general contact address and then never check it but just to delete it in order not to clog the server; that people who’s job is to manage the recruitment process for their respective departments have, after more than a year, still little idea of how to use a new system of reserve lists..
well, I also say “no thanks.” i’d rather still hope that things are or can nevertheless be better elsewhere, and wait. as they have told me too, and i’d still take their word that they’ll call me. what the congratulations letter says is that being on a reserve list is no guarantee that you get offered a job. but it does not say that it does not guarantee that you get invited for an interview. and so i take that if it is not expressly denied it’s implicit that getting the chance of being interviewed for one or two jobs is a minimum that they do offer.
and then there is yet another option. why don’t we all get together a letter of complaint to the ombudsman as to the (in)transparency and (in)efficiency of the recruitment process from open competitions reserve lists? the guy is already on it, as some have brought to our attention, on lesser issues such as the computer-based tests. honestly, i thought that that was quite a fair and expedient way of filtering out, though i hated the math part in particular, which in my opinion tests very little. but the conditions are the same for everyone. of course it could be done better, or do without it altogether.. ๐ but, coming back to our situation. just taking the issues of complaint on this blog and i’d say we’d already have a fairly rich material to hand in. just throwing in the idea… we all agree that things do not work, by far, as they should. so if a number of us got to draft the letter and have everyone sign it, with full name and laureate number i’d say we could get something going.
cheers!!
@breach
I don’t know if you can call sending a great cover letter and your cv to HoUs and others that are in areas that you find interesting lobbying or not (I guess everyone is calling it that), but I cannot imagine getting noticed without that.
First the E-RL is new, and not really used by HR people yet… they’re just getting used to it. Second, the CV ONLINE database seems to be a fiction…
Using the EU Who is Who function is really easy to find the names of people in positions of power that might take an interest in you (and I’m sure you know how to turn a name and surname into a comission email address). Hell, you even find vacant or potentially vacant positions using the commission directory (if it’s empty or labeled “acting” if it’s a higher position).
Sounds like you’ve still got quite a bit of hope, as if you just sent it to the general or “recruitment” email, you’re not going to get any positive response. That means you haven’t started looking seriously, which means you haven’t blown any chances.
Easy, guys, we are all in the same boat. Let’s hope we will all reach the EU shore soon.
I know that lobbying is highly recommended but, honestly, I don’t see any effect in the case of those who have doing it avidly for the last six months. A guy from our list has allegedly contacted all HoU and HR, and the result is: nothing. But I admit that lobbying does inrease your chance of being spotted by the institutions. At least you might get an interview somewhere.
As for myself, I am doing some lobbying but I would not go out of my way to get a job in Brussels by “harassing” HoU by mail/phone (as some laureates are doing). Just like Breach, I value my pride too much. Besides, I don’t want all my life and free time to be entirely consumed by the idea of landing an EU-job at any price.
Deleting the e-mail without even reading it is really outrageous. The least he could do was forward it to the HR unit, seeing the subject. From where you would have received the following kind answer :”thank you, but we have no vacancies suiting your profile at the moment. In accordance with Regulation (EC) No 45/2001 on the protection of personal data, the information you supplied will not be kept by this Directorate General”.
Just yesterday I received the following answer to my request for information on vacancies:”We advise you to enter your CV details in the CV-online database”. The funny thing was that the second sentence of my mail was: “You can find my CV in the CV-online database”. But I should not complain, at least they had not deleted my mail without reading it…
@marco, don’t know about Yahoo Mail honestly… Every desktop mail client has the option to request a delivery status notification, which tells if your message has been read (most ask the recipient whether to send this out too). AFAIK, most web-based (like Yahoo) don’t have such options.
@sebastian, personally I really think (and that’s nothing more than a personal opinion) the fact that lobbying helps is altogether very, very wrong and demonstrates serious deficiencies in the EU does its personnel selection. The fact that it works, and the fact that most ‘smart’ people do it, doesn’t justify it at all, and again that’s a personnel opinion. (In my country of origin (Bulgaria) most drivers tend to bribe their way out of most traffic violations — it’s cheaper, easier and works — yet is it justifiable?). In a way its herd behaviour… anyhow that’s an academic point. I realise it’s in my own best interest too (though I don’t agree with it) so I did my fair bit of emailing DGs, asking whether they need my skills and talents, etc. But when you get treated like that it’s not about pride — it’s about professionalism and basic decency of how you deal with your colleagues-to-be, and the general public overall. Heck yes, I am complaining, as people who approach their duties in this way are last suited for public service of any kind. Why I personally don’t feel like doing it anymore? Because it’s being personally frustrating and feels, well, pointless. Why I posted this specific incident? Because things like that need to be publicized and rebuked if we want the system to move forward in a more positive way. I feel we all need to complain more about it rather than shut up.
I am not working for the Commission or any other institution. I am just your average guy who passed a EU-25 competition, now trying to find a position. Trust me, I am not exactly happy about this “process”, but from what I understand that is how it works or how you enhance your chances for recruitment in the foreseeable(?) future. It’s up to anyone how he handles the situation, but please don’t complain if you are too proud to lobby. It has always worked liked that. The difference right now is that you have the advantage of your national target rate. I’d make use of it.
@sebastian, you do work for the Commission don’t you :-] `I have a great and impressive CV and I act high and mighty`? No, I’m your average Joe, who has passed an open competition. Yet no, I am not your average Joe, ’cause your average Joe doesn’t know he needs to lobby, he’s just read the ‘congrats’ e-mail in his EPSO mailbox and had bought his friends a round of beer. And he’s waiting patiently. I would feel really pathetic if an EU career is the only choice in life professionally-wise that I would have. I am well aware that being placed on a reserve list doesn’t guarantee anything. I did my bit — I passed the concourse, fair and square. So if it takes a ‘please hire me, I can do tricks, even if you delete my e-mails and act like kings of world kind of thing’ to get a job with the Commission, well, thanks, but no thanks. So excuse me, but I’m just gonna stand quietly and wait — if they need my skills — all the better, if not… well, it’s a free world. Cheers.
@breach: I’ve been reading your posts for a while now. Maybe you should reconsider that “just” being placed on a reserve list does not constitute a guarantee for employment. Plus not everyone in the Commission might find your CV as impressive as you obviously do, judging from your posts.If you are unwilling to look for specific posts in specific units where you can clearly show your added value to the Commission (or any other Institution) and your interest, you might be in for a long, long wait. It’s not exactly that the institutions are short on candidates. Everyone I know had to seriously lobby for his job, including looking up units and names. There is btw something much more useful than IDEA. It can be rather easily found on the Commission’s website… Plus as target rates for the time being are clearly in your favor for the time being, I do think that some enhanced lobbying makes senses. If you can’t be bothered to do that, why should you be recruited?
@sebastian, right I sent it to the general point of contact e-mail. And what happens? Some guy (I have his name) checks this account about three months later and hits the delete on the message without even opening it. Excuse my naive mentality, but that’s just outrageous ๐ I agree your approach makes more sense, but I have a life, so I don’t intend to spend any amount of time digging people’s names up from IDEA and spamming them (which is apparently I am doing). Cheers.
@breach
could you tell me if in yahoo mail there is a possibility of finding out if your email has been erased, read, etc.? i sent a bunch of emails and till now only a negative response and…silence.
thanks
@breach: where exactly did you send your inquiry to? Did you use the contact-adress you find on their website? Like hitting the contact button, wating for your Outlook etc. to load and then just send it there?
No wonder that your email hasn’t been answered (even though this might conctitute a case of maladministration). I do not think that trying to lobby from there is such a good or even efficient idea. I’d suggest that you go into the Directory of the Commission, look up the specific units you are interested in and directly contact the respective Head of Units/Head of Sectors or the Human Ressource Department of the DG of your desires. Of course you won’t find the email-adresses there but as a laureat of a competiton, you should be able to figure out the email-adress of a HoU once you identified his name. Better luck next time.
I am hereby giving up on lobbying of any kind :-]
Your message
To: DIGIT EUROPA
Subject: Working with DIGIT inquiry
Sent: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 11:48:23 +0100
was deleted without being read on Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:51:40 +0100
That’s at the very least humiliating. Note the dates too…
@nervous
How do you know that you were flagged? I mean, how someone can be sure to be into the database of eligible candidates? I start having this doubtรขโฌยฆ
Hi Nat and ad9407 victims,
I subscribe one by one your words… It was a difficult test, because:
1. Not easy to allocate your mind in your language after 2.30 hours thinking exclusively in another one.
2. The questions, I would say, were not what I had expected.
Conclusion: let’s see and good luck. I think these sensations are general. Hope to see you further ๐
I am a laureate of open competition AST/14/06.
The reserve list was published 7 months ago and most of the 96 laureates are hired already.
As to me, I remain ‘flagged” by an European institution for more than 3 months now, without being offered any interview and no reply to my askings for news, either.
What would you advice me – remain with this institution (for how long? what’s the max time they can keep me flagged?) or ask them to release me?
Because time is running and the expiration date of the list approaching …
@ Sorina
Well, the peak in spring thing sounds like a fairly plausible explanation. And I hope it works that way, because then we just have to make it through the winter.. ๐ And spring begins earlier than May.. ๐ So, if your source is right, and not mine, then all the better for us!!
Bebe –
I also took the AD/94/07 test last Friday and felt absolutely terrible about it. I came out thinking that it was a disaster and not at all what I had prepared for. And yes, the transition from one language to another in the space of 5 minutes (not to mention trying to remember whatever it was I’d just written in order to consolidate it into a “short note”) was mentally exhausting, to say the least.
I am almost certain we aren’t the only ones feeling very uncertain about it. Good luck to you, anyway!
Nat
@Elena.
No, itรยดs not EPA.
@Sorina
I suppose your field is not EPA, because we’ve got the results for this field at the end of October.
Riviere I sympathise with you as I am in youy exact position. Have been on the EPSO list for Cast 27 Political Matters Advisor since last autumn but haven’t heard anything yet. I have also sent my cv to some Heads of Unit within Relex but they just replied that there are no vacancies at the moment.