The sheer number of comments at the main post ‘So I Won’t Be A Commission Official‘ has been causing problems, so all the old comments are here instead, and hence searchable.
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@Sebastian:
Thanks
I would still like to know the basis for Matvei’s proposition that NY has zero posts on Contract Agency basis.
and by extrapolation, how one can ascertain Delegations which do – or will – have such vacancies.
@Breach/Sorina:
The publication of the reserve list in the OJ and on the external EPSO-website, is only a formality and has therefore been delayed due to tasks which need urgent treatment. It will however be done in due course. Far more important, the list has been published on the internal website and is already operational.
That was the message I got for my competition (AD/26/05) when I asked about the publication etc.
So don’t worry about that.
And congratulations
@Sorina, yeah, but I dont’ think that’s gonna happen till end of Nov:
“The reserve list, together with its expiry date will be published in the Official Journal, as well as on the EPSO website. Should you not wish for your name to appear on this list, kindly inform us before 23 November 2007.”
Sorry, just to clarify; no I don’t think that there are going to be any newly created CA posts in delegations, but it seems that the current contracts will be ended in the coming year(s). Maybe that will lead to more openings to us outsiders, or maybe those already in the positions will get an automatic renewal… que sera sera, I guess…
I don’t think that there are going to be hundreds of CA posts appearing in Delegations overnight. RELEX just doesn’t have the budget.
For where there will be vacancies, most CA posts are connected to deconcentrated budget lines, so think any Deleegation which is distributing ODA (including pre-accession and TACIS).
Congratulations, Breach!
I hope they will publish now the reserve lists. The results for Economists came out in July, but not the reserve lists. I guess they were waiting for your results as well.
Viki, obnoxious, greetings from another Admin offcier FGIII…
I suppose the whole system is supposed to be “lie at home, we’ll call you”, but of course, early birds get their worms. I am looking at some Delegations through the Commission HR system (SysPer2, only for insiders) and I am not really finding many posts. And probably it is not showing the future vacancies…
I guess we will have to lobby “blindly”, I’m afraid.
Well done Breach. AD5 was very tough competition. I am sure you will have good news soon.
As for my profile – RELEX Administrative officer I wonder how acccurate my math is… the total number of people applying for this post was 224 before validation. I would suppose that the number of people who actually sat the test were about 120 and probably 60-70 passed. The number of vacant posts was announced as 20. Is it a good chance or not?
Congratulations Breach! Well done!
It would be interesting to see some stats on the results as well…
EPSO/AD/46/06 Γ’β¬β Administrators (AD5) with Bulgarian citizenship results are out and I made it to the reserve list! π It’s been a long and tedious process, with a LOT of investment of both my time and effort. Though I wouldn’t assess my performance at the oral test as exactly great I really feel all that effort was justified π So. Congrats to me and good luck to all you guys! Hopefully I’ll get an offer too π
I almost get the feeling that basically all contract agent posts will be open in the coming year – if I’ve calculated correctly they expect in total about 800 vacancies, and I think the delegations have on average about 800 contract agents. However, somebody already in a delegation could probably confirm that.
If you look at the CAST 25 recruitment, delegations were only allowed to recruit CAs for a maximum of three years, in order to await the introduction of the new system. How many openings for outsiders this means in reality, I don’t know, but hopefully there will be some.
@ matvei
I would be interested to learn how you know that there are no contract agent posts in NY ?
If you know that there are none there does that also mean that you know where there are some? Is there a list of vacant – or to become vacant – posts somewhere ?
And what about South-Eastern Europe (ex-Yugoslavia, etc.)?
I am in the FGIV (RELEX) Press/Information Adviser category.
Thanks,
Florian
Thanks Matvei…. In case you have any infos about asian delegations, please let me know.
Thanks.
@riv
There’s no point lobbying New York as there are no CA positions (apart from ICT Officer)
Well Obnoxious you have much the same query as me: how does one go about ascertaining which Delegations have now ( or will have in the next 6 – 9 months) a vacant post in the specialism which one has passed the exams in ?
Additionally – is one confined to applying for posts in that specific specialism ?
None of the Delegation websites which I have perused list vacant posts (apart from local vacancies like for drivers).
Obnoxious, I didn’t have the courage to write here but I got encouraged to ask the very same question as yours. I have also passed the RELEX Administrative Officer test and I have absolutely no idea what my chances are. What is the most important skill (or thing really) they are looking for. I have some knowledge in non EU languages and I wonder if it matters at all.
From comments on this blog and others, I reckon it’s quite hard to be hired as FGIV or AD.
Do you have any idea if chances are a bit higher for FGIII’s? I passed the RELEX FGIII administrative officer exam and I’m wondering if I have any chance at all to be hired by a delegation I’m interested in (in Asia)…
I would like to respectfully suggest that Rasa / Frustrated / Lia give it a rest.
You are conducting a – somewhat bad-tempered – discussion on a subject – the validity / fairness / desirability / whatever / (or otherwise) of ‘positive discrimination’ which is one of those subjects on which people form a view which they rarely if ever change. So no – one of you is going to persuade either of the others or probably anyone else.
Also, the policy in question is not one which – whatever opinion we hold about it – we can change one iota, at least, not in the timescale which would affect us personally. The policy is what the policy is.
As I understand it, this blog is (or was) functioning more as a mutual assistance forum where persons interested in finding a job with one or other ramifications of the EU can ask questions / share knowledge / spread a bit of enlightenment around / assist one-another in the best way to go about obtaining that interview / job.
Of course, I do not ‘own’ the blog and this is only my two pence-worth : but I note no-one else is joining in and I rather suspect this is because, like me, they are a bit embarrassed at these exchanges and are hoping that if they look in a different direction they will come to an end. Enough already !! Peace !!
http://www.pattiwood.net/images/smile_globe.gif
Frustrated π It is your choise to be frustrated.
Should I say I was successful in a first stage EU-27 competition, too?
Should I mention my degree, languages spoken (native + EN, FR, DE, RU, PL) and work experience?
It does not matter WHAT you find to blame. It does matter what do you do afterwards. If you are frustrated about the recruitment system, the you just might be frustrated about the job, too (all the good ones being then taken, let’s say, by the EU-XX?).
And what is the point of counting who gets more? Look at those who have less. The ones who did not make into merit group 12 π the 7th time trying π
Cheer up!
@ Rasa
1) Going by that logic, please explain to me why there are no 50% recruitment targets for men when it comes to positions like translators/interpreters, secretaries… What’s good for the goose, should be good for the gander.
2) Take a look at these figures
http://ec.europa.eu/civil_service/docs/bs_sexe_nat_grade_en.pdf
Derive the number of officials per country on a per capita basis and decide for yourself which countries are actually underrepresented… you are in for a surprise.
Moreover, you seem to be missing the point I raised here. Historically new members all got transitional advantages when it came to recruitment, but I do not believe it ever came in the way of hiring other nationals., which is happening right now.
And on a more general note I find it sad people do not seem to accept full-blown competition as the most objective criterion when it comes to handing out government jobs. I thought especially people from former communist regimes would appreciate this.
You forget that the people paying the affirmative action are also individuals. Talking about percentages does not take account about the fact that in 2-4 years, I will suffer because I am male and “eu12”. Why should I pay for the entire system?
Yes, society does this and that, but at the end of the process I, as individual, can lose my opportunity because of quotas. Nothing to do with formation or degrees. It is a political decision.
The fact is that I should pay because Romania was a communist country. Ans I should pay because I am not a girl.
Affirmative action is discrimination.
Frustrated, how can one remedy the situation of under-representation of:
certain nationalities
women
disabled persons
if not by the means of temporarily shifting the employment to teir side?
Look at the situation like this: if one has excessive weight, one has to correct one’s diet and do some physical activity. There is no point in being angry with a naturally thin person π Here the naturally thin is EU-12 π The metabolism will change in 2-4 years π
Besides, have you not noticed that the reserve lists are drawn-up to be valid for several years, and that not 100 percent of candidates actually get the EU job?
And I guess Lia, talking about opportunities, has had in her mind all the jobs. Not only the EU ones. Certainly – not only the permanent official positions.
Life is not obliged to be good. You have to put in a lot of effort π Optimism is very handy tool, too.
@ Lia
1) I am not anglo-saxon; you are making wild assumptions. English is my third language.
2) In which way would it offend you
a) to state that discriminating against males is ludicrous when, after correcting for an applicant’s age, males are actually the underrepresented “species”?
b) to state that blocking a person’s ongoing recruitment on account of his/her nationality is only bound to annoy them?
In the past new member states enjoyed special privileges when it came to the recruitment of their nationals. As far as I can tell it never involved blocking the recruitment of other laureates. Fact is that too many countries were granted membership in too short a time and epso organised things in a shambolic way. Maybe I will stay in the private sector and get my first cardiac arrest in 20 years from now, but you can count on the EU15 people still making it in feeling pretty pissed off with their EU12 colleagues on account of the shite they had to wade through.
As far as my “western” generation is concerned, the AD2005 competitions were the first open competitions in 8 years’ time… it’s not as if the opportunities have been so amply frequent. With regard to my personal situation, I certainly do not believe any-one in his/her sane mind would have called it “privileged”. Not every-one has concerned and well-off parents around here.
epso could have told me beforehand they would not hire me on account of me being me; I would have left it up to the “elite” to deal with matters among themselves then.
@ frustrated & everyone else
i am willing to debate on how ridiculous or not these “quotas” (which, officially, in EU communications are referred to as “geographical balance”) are. again, provided “frustrated”, and others who might feel like him, try and not offend others merely because they are female or coming from CEE countries and hence privileged, even if more stupid or less qualified, or because they did not compete in the same competition as him/her which, allegedly, was far more difficult.
i hope more others will join this discussion. in the end, it is an exercise in debating what and how the EU is doing.
my point of view: these so-called unofficial quotas are unfair to a certain extent to non EU-12 laureats. but the need for them is partly justified by the need to have people within the EU institutions with a better grasp and deeper understanding (or possibility of) of the political, economic, social, cultural, whatever situation in these countries. moreover, they will last for the EU-10 some 2 more years at most, and Romania and Bulgaria, for which recruitment has not yet even started, since the results of the first selection exam are still due, some 4 more years. Then competition on posts will be again thoroughly open to everyone.
people from CEE states have not had the chance until now to openly compete for these — not only well paid but, in my opinion, very exciting and full of opportunities– jobs. is it really so unfair that they are given a head start at the moment? or ridiculous?
@frustrated
i’m afraid you only took what you liked from what i wrote. indeed, many people take degrees nowadays, an many do not. but that was not my only point. those recruited from CEE have been evaluated in their overwhelming majority by both peers and bosses as good to very good. and i am sure they did not say that just because they checked their CVs.
as for discrimination, i agree with you: what you refer to is a kind of discrimination. but i do not think it is fair you take it on us, people from the EU12. First of all, my point earlier is that we are not necessarily less prepared and less suited for those positions than you might be. Second, I did not set up the system, I am (hopefully) merely taking advantage of it. And I did not set up the communist system either, nor did I keep my country out of the EU until now, which prevented me from taking this concours earlier, nor did I help maintain the patriarchal societal system which until very recently prevented a majority of women from being active participants in the public space (including jobs in addition to politics), and which then triggered this tendency in EU (both EU institutions and member states) to try and encourage the promotion of women.
As a representative of white male anglo-saxons i believe you’ve had so far plenty of opportunities, and i bet you’ll still have. and i am wishing you the best of luck with it! just stop venting your frustration towards people who have nothing to do with it! as well as offending them without knowing them!
harris was right that what is greatly missing still, including on this forum, is a sense of being truly european. well, one step forward would be learning to respect each other.
Well Jon,
It’s precisely because this thread attracts such a large crowd and enjoys a high visibility that it’s the right place to talk about subjects like these ridiculous quota. We’re repeating the same mistakes the US made… in the end their affirmative action system ended up discriminating most against Americans of South-East Asian descent.
Dear colleagues, hello. Colleagues, because whether we all succeed or not to become a ‘Commission official’ we are all taking part in a forum which started as ‘ So, i won’t be a Commission official’ .. The forum has taken a rather interesting twist ever since the results of the CAST27 came out. Anxious inquiries about reimbursements, frustration about all kinds of quotas, insider-outsider gap..
I totally understand and feel all the colleagues who have raised such questions, the toil and effort they have given for these exams is very significant and came with costs. This goes for me too.
But, allow me to take a minute with you and think again what is the aim to all this effort. To me, i think it all comes down to this sincere statement i read above by a fellow poster who used the words ‘to settle down, buy a house, start a family’.
Simple and true. Everyone is trying for his own well-being. On a distant level , if it exists, comes the question about our role as EU officials, or more accurately as European citizens.
And dear colleagues, that’s because there is not yet a sufficient meaning to what a european citizen consists of , not only inside this forum, but in the whole of Europe.
Unless a european identity is formed, without nations, and not based in the market, we will all be individuals, competing in a bazaar, taking what we want and then go home.
An epso exam cannot give the answer to this question of course, only ourselves can.
Probably we will not all become EU officials , but i hope we can learn to accept what we owe to each other.
It’s only called ‘So I wonΓ’β¬β’t be a Commission official’ because I didn’t manage to pass, and this was just one post on my blog that deals with all kinds of other things!
Providing the discussion stays civil I’m very happy for people to discuss whatever they wish about the Concours here.
@ Lia
Nowadays every-one has plenty of degrees… it’s getting to the point where they are no longer worth the paper they are printed on. So yes, I too have a drawer of degrees, spanning linguistics up to mathematics. I wish I had left university a lot earlier, real life is much harder, but more interesting too.
Maybe you do not fully appreciate what is going on right now. A lot of the vacancies on the “internal” list explicitly mention “only EU10- EU12 nationals” and entire DGs are prohibited to recruit EU15 nationals until they meet the quota… as I said … my interview simply got canceled when the quota hit. At present a considerable number of candidates are not even allowed to present themselves for a recruitment… nothing to do with “all other things being alike”, just plain discrimination.
And trust me…. competing in an EU-wide open competition to be among the first percentile is not to be compared with competing in a national competition (unless that competition were to be mathematics in early twentieth century Hungary of course)
Sorry that maybe i interfere in the discussion but the american phd might indeed induce some discrimination…a positive one..and maybe that’s why we have these long waiting lists and numerous temporary vacancies calls for the same type of jobs…maybe there is a search of some brand of phds, nationalities, genders…how ingenious to organise such disguising exams…
Lia, im sure you will get an offer soon. Good luck.
dear frustrated,
i am against discrimination without foundation. but, as far as i know, it should work mainly like this: when all else is equal, preference is given to women or the “right” nationality or the person with the handicap. though, it’s true, it does not always work that way.
i do not have a handicap thank you very much, but i do have a Phd from an american university, in international politics. and i studied for the AD exam while struggling to hand in my dissertation, and then preparing to defend it, as well as putting up with a teaching position within the university, and making all the paperwork for switching my status from student to employee in a country for which i did not hold citizenship, nor residence.
as for the “right” passport (as is mentioned in the essay on EU recruitment on CEE that someone kindly posted the link for), finally a CEE passport is a right one. you have no idea how difficult it was until not so long ago for CEEs, especially romanians and bulgarians, to travel abroad, let alone finding a job. moreover, there are far more and better employment possibilities in your country (assuming is a western one) than in mine.
finally, if you read the essay i mentioned earlier, you would notice that a majority of people from older member states working in the commission appreciate as good to very good more than 90% of the new staff coming from CEEs. moreover, more than 85% in the AD level had a masters degree, and 9% had PhDs. and most of that new CEE staff were women, indeed!!
fianlly, my question was not related to the AD concours, but the CAST 27. anyway, i guess both your reply and mine could apply to this case too.
in any case, good luck! as louis pasteur once said “fortuna favours the prepared mind”. in other words, if you’re as good as you say, than i have full confidence you’ll succeed. and perhaps, letting off that steam might help with that too.
1) With regard to your nationality, recruitment quota (Γ’β¬Εrecruitment targetsΓ’β¬Β in the commission newspeak) are set to last up to the end of 2011.
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/07/884&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=fr
2) With regard to your gender, the commission will aim at minimally 50% females across the board, which means males at the AD-level will be discriminated against.
Γ’β¬ΕMore women than men were recruited from the EUR 15 and EUR 10 competitions. This
compensated in part for the loss of the women that occurred in the selection process. This
recovery, which is especially apparent in category A, will not last if all laureates of the
reserve list are recruited. In that case, the loss of women will revert to the numbers at the
step of laureatesΓ’β¬Β
http://ec.europa.eu/civil_service/docs/2007_objectives_en.pdf
As you can see from the staff figures, women already make up the majority of the younger staff, the discrimination is paying off!
http://ec.europa.eu/civil_service/docs/bs_sexe_age_en.pdf
A pity you have no disability, as thereΓ’β¬β’s a 3% “target” there. Maybe you could stage some freak accident once you made the list?
I for one (having made a first merit group in an EU-wide open comp, as an outsider in between work deadlines and renovating my place, without any special course material provided to be me by the commission syndicates nor time off) feel pretty frustrated over this way of treating peopleΓ’β¬Β¦ The job interview I had with an enthusiastic Head of Unit got cancelled as the DG in question could no longer hire EU15 nationals this year (and maybe next year and maybeΓ’β¬Β¦) with the obvious exception of those EU15 nationals already working thereΓ’β¬Β¦. How they managed to get in beats me, but then again, thatΓ’β¬β’s why I am an outsider. I guess some of us need to keep plodding on in the corporate treadmill in order to generate sufficient tax money.
ps anyone having any idea with regard to some possible positive discrimination: i.e. towards females, newest member states, never though having had any work experience within any EU institution? perhaps Christos might be a good source on that? thanks!
hello everyone!
i just stumbled upon this forum yesterday, after finally receiving the results for CAST 27 Relex FGIV – Political Matters Advisers. I am also in another AD competition, waiting for the final result beginning of next month, and I found the reading of the messages on this forum very interesting and highly informative. thank you everyone for sharing your experiences, views, doubts, hopes…
just wanted so say hi mainly, at this point. and note, for all the relex so-called laureates, that we should be looking forward to the publication of the statistics: how many confirmed taking the test after application, how many turned out, how many passed the various parts of the test and how many in the end made it on the database. They published that for the other section of CAST 27, and i hope they will do it for Relex too. That should give us at least an idea of what chances we have to get an invitation/offer.
i too was very surprised yesterday to find out that i had passed. i thought i did rather poorly, both in the math part and the specific competencies (given the no. of questions on obscure african rebel factions, organizations etc). so i was rather more curious to learn my score, and what was the pass mark (in other latest competitions, they seem to always inform the failed candidates of what was their score on each test and which was the pass mark). but after my first 5 min of self-back-patting (“i’m so cool, i’m so cool”), i realised that in this competition, unlike the AD one, there is no number limit of successful candidates. hence i may not be so cool in the end. but i decided to suspend any judgment in this regard until i saw the statistics.. π
well, best wishes to everyone, and once i receive the other AD competition result – which i very much hope will be positive, not least because that would mean i would get to work in Brussels and not some other corners of the world which, though exciting as a perspective, do not quite squarely fit in with my plans to settle down, buy a house, make a family and begin enlarging it.. π – i’ll be back to share with anyone would be interested, my experience with the AD Admin concours.
just one note here: i found the CAST 27 v&n more difficult than the computer-based preselection i took for the AD. it might be because this competition concerned all EU 27, while the other was just for romanians and bulgarians.
again, all the very best wishes, and good luck to everyone,
lia
Funny how a month later they still send the same text with the same typo :-]
‘I am pleased to inform you that your were successful in the tests.’
@Joe
That’s because you are male, don’t have any friends inside (meaning you weren’t already working with some dodgy contract at the commission) and EU15… never mind the fact you make it to a first merit group out of 50.000 applicants.
If I still get inside, it’ll be pay-back time.
Well passing cannot be a sufficient condition for being offered a post – but it seems it is a necessary pre-condition so it must be better to pass than not to pass !
What would be useful would be perhaps a list of what Delegations (if any) have, or will have during the next 6-9 months, vacancies to fill in profiles for which one has passed the tests. [Or is one allowed to be considered for posts in profiles other than the ones in which one took the tests ?? ]
I have had a quick look at some of the websites of some of the Delegations. A few of them provide Organigrams which indicate what job-titles persons in post in the particular delegation occupy. So far I have not traced any persons listed as ‘Political Matters Adviser’ – do such posts actually exist and if so in which Duty Stations ??
@Miriana
no results for me either!I guess we were the unlucky ones!
N,
@riv
I got exactly the same letter about the EU 27 Relex Exam.
It doesn’t really mean anything in terms or real recruitment. I had also passed the EU25 exam and got exactly the same letter but had no job offers apart from one in Helsinki. They asked me to send in my updated CV, which I did, only to receive a rejecting letter letting me know that I was not selected for an interview. Another attempt I had made then writing to one of the Delegations was also rejected as there was no vacancy there then. So I don’t really think that passing these exams means anything, really.
RELEX candidate colleagues: yes I advise do check your EPSO profiles for your result. I have had no email from EPSO at all but nevertheless my result is posted on my EPSO profile – apparently sent today, 25th October – so perhaps the e-mail notifications will be sent out shortly – anyway the point is check the profiles.
On the subject of the result, just fyi – to my considerable surprise I passed. I quote the letter in full below to show the kind of thing you should have on your profiles……..
Also, again for your info – I don’t seek to devalue the achievement of those who passed – but I was truly surprised to have done so. The reason I was expecting to fail was that I felt it was impossible to prepare for the job profile part of the Concours as no past or sample papers or questions were available – whereas they were available for other profiles such as lawyer or IT specialists.
I think a number of people made the point to EPSO that this was grossly unfair to some Relex candidates as they were not being treated equally with candidates in other profiles, in that we had to guess what the questions might be or be based on.
Perhaps in the event so many candidates did badly that they had to reduce the standard to allow at least some of us to pass ? I hope not, and hope that I – and others – passed because I / they did well !!
Anyway, it’s good news as far as it goes.
NOW what I would like from those already in post in the system is advice as to how I might go about ascertaining what posts are available to be filled in my preferred Duty Stations ( New York / Mozambique / and somewhere else I forget) and then how do i go about lobbying for them?? There is no point in me lobbying if there simply isn’t a vacancy to be filled.
All advice on this subj gratefully received…………. !
##
Information
All the dates within this document respect the day/month/year format.
European Personnel Selection Office
Unit F: Selection of contract staff, management and supervision of reserve lists
Brussels, 25/10/2007
EPSO/5000 L – EN
Re :
Call for expression of interest:
Publication website:
Date of publication:
EPSO/CAST27/6/07 – CAST27 (RELEX) – FGIV
(RELEX) Political Matters Adviser
http://europa.eu/epso/
28/03/2007
Please quote these references and your candidate number in all correspondence
Dear Riv,
The marking of the selection tests for EPSO/CAST27/6/07 in which you recently took part has now been completed and I am pleased to inform you that your were successful in the tests.
Consequently, your name will be placed in the database(*) of eligible candidates for the profile in which you took your tests. Access to this database will be given to DG Relex, who will select and invite for interview candidates who best fit their requirements. Please note that at the same time as your interview you will be required to provide all your supporting documents (diplomas, certificates and, where appropriate, relevant documents to prove your work experience) corresponding to the information you entered on the application form.
If you have not already filled in your online CV we would ask you to do this as a matter of urgency as potential recruiters will not be able to consider applications which are incomplete.
Yours sincerely,
Alan PIOTROWSKI
Head of Unit
(*) The database will remain valid for a period of three years from the date of this letter.
——————————————————————————–
EPSO, Office: C-80 1/66, avenue de Cortenbergh/Kortenberglaan 80, B-1049 Brussels, Belgium.
Fax: (32)-2-299.80.81
Contact: epso-cast27-en@ec.europa.eu
Website: http://europa.eu/epso/
I still didn’t get any results…anyone still waiting or it is only me?
Same here.
Maybe they don’t send out the email at all if you already
checked on the profile. After all the email is only a
notification that there are new messages on your profile.
Hi Mariana,
I had my results in the profile, but still no message on my e-mail, strangely enough.
Sorry Miriana.
It seems then that they are entering the results by hand one by one or something.
I only found it on my EPSO Profile though and still
received no email about it, so keep checking the
EPSO website rather than your inbox.
I guess it should all be there in the next few hours,
but having done an internship with the Commission,
I would never be 100% sure about anything π
@ Joe
thank you for your reply!
you were succesful in the CAST 25 for translators and are on the AD reserve list and still did not get an offer? It is very discouraging when I read that π
…I was also wondering why they are only testing ONE of our languages and not our third language…