The sheer number of comments at the main post ‘So I Won’t Be A Commission Official‘ has been causing problems, so all the old comments are here instead, and hence searchable.
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Christos,
Of course I can sympathise with the fact that it is extremely unpleasant for the CAs currently in employment. It is not an insecurity I would wish upon anybody.
However, two moot points:
Was not the idea that CAs should only be temporary, even before the reform? In that case, the EU has had rather an intransparent system for recruitment that has kept hundreds of potential staff out (since the contracts seemed to be renewed eternally thus not letting new staff in).
And no, I don’t agree with your government analogy: for sure the government would not kick me out of the country for not knowing its mission, but I think that a governmental employer would.:-)
And to get back to the beginning; does anybody know why we are not getting our results? It would be nice to find out at some point…
@Kostas on money and life
I understand that basic human need are governed by money. However, please allow me to remind you of the theory behind Marslow pyramid of need. Your self-attention is the most difficult thing to achive and this is the message I would like to pass.
To this extent, I do not believe we should let people dream a wrong dream.
It is true that a Bulgarian/Romanian they are getting in their countries a smaller amount of money than they one they will get as CAs. However I am pretty convinved that people have forget to calculate the cost of living in another big city. I can assure you that it does not cost the same i.e. to hire a appartment in our countries of origin and in Brussels.
Have you ever considered how are you going to communicate with your neighbor you does not speak your language.
Are you going to miss your family, friends? Can you find the food that you used to eat in your country?
Working in strange places, in other countries, with people with different cultures, educational backgrounds, in languages other than yours, etc could be extremely frustrating and could make the great majority of people uncomfortable.
Please allow me to close this intervention by saying that “Vision without action is a Dream, Action without vision is a Nightmare”.
Which is your vision?
@ Stefano, Maria, Nikoletta concerning CAs
In 1/5/2004, there was a reform of the staff regulations, that introduced a lot of changes. One of these changes was the introduction of the CAs and the abolision of the previous type of employment contacts, with the extra footnote that every CA should pass written tests.
The only way for people under the previous contracts to get renewals was to pass the CAST competitions. If they did not pass, they will not be fired but their contacts will expiry in a couple of years.
Under the previous regime there was (almost) no maximum number of years for the cotracts and thus people could stay for a life time (well almost).
The new provisions ask everyone (old agents or young university graduates) to sit exams. The ones who succeed could get a job.
This condition is extremely tought and may be even unfair for colleagues with several years of experience on the job. This situtation affects the same people who are a couple of years before the legal pension date and young recruits. This is a much worst case than Stefano implied.
Another interesting point raised by Nikoletta concerning the knowledge of the EU. However I believe that it is oversimplified.
The same way that in my country of origin I do not know the exact way that my goverment is producing new legislation.
Do not get me wrong, but the structure of the EU Institutions is the equivalent of a Member State government and not a small company.
BTW paraphrasing the question of Stefano I would like to put forward the question: which is the mission of your country? This is really hard to reply and I am sure that your government will not throw out of the country if you cannot answer this question 🙂
I hope that the sitution on CAs is now clearer!
@Maria
I think there was a reform in the past to solve this problem. Something is changed… For example the travel expenses (which are now refunded) for the interviews 10 years ago were not refunded by the EU commission. It was all to your own risk.
Now there is a reduced risk, but CAs must maintain a standard and I agree with it, I guess CAs and EU people in general represents all us (as citizens).
Not only the CAs have to pass a test, also TAs have the same thing after 3 years, after this they have an unlimited contract (if I’m wrong, let me know).
You are right, they do not loose the job, it is not renewed, but the result is the same.
Especially if we are speaking of over 35 people who are difficult to collocate on the labour market. This is the fist think I have speaking of renewals.
Stefano
@Stefano
I think you are right to a certain extent with the contract agents, however I can see why the EU applies pretty strict rules now since it will now be possible for contract agents to get permanent employment, something that was not (officially) allowed before. In that case something has been very wrong with the system if people have been going on for decades on supposedly time-limited contracts (but correct me if I’m wrong, maybe that is not the case).
In my view, if a new test is applied, it should be for all, not only for those currently under contract (btw I don’t think they lose their jobs, it is just that the contracts will not be renewed next time).
And, sorry for the CAs, but they are not the only ones who travel and have busy schedule and little time to prepare…
I think it is also a question of image and also a question regarding transparency. It is true that most of the CAs well know the answer, and if they fail the test they will loose the job, is also true that the EU institutions are trying just to have a personnel which is to a medium level of knowledge about the institution itself. Many of them do not have any idea about how a law is approved in the EU.
I know it can appear frustrating for someone, but to answer to the questions you just need to know what is the politics of your institution.
It is like if you work for a company and you do not know the mission of your company. Why should work there?
And anyway, th test is quite impersonal. What I suggest is that probably they should give one chance more to CAs, also thinking to the fact that most of them travel and have not so much time to prepare for the test.
Probably the right answer is that it is not wrong to apply for a new test, but it is also important a little bit of flexibility from the other side. And the other important thing is that we do not speak only about EU Servants, but also of families which have some rights. Which is another face of the same medal.
Dear Christos. Most of our life depends on money. I can not feed my kids, I can not send them to school and I can not pay for their health, if I am not paid.
And please, consider the salary of a Bulgarian, or Romanian (I think about 400 – 600 Euros per month), to the one of a CA in an EU organization in Brussels. Let the people dream, please!
To all:
Can I ask if someone knows the following?
If you are already a contract agent, and you want your contract renewed, why do you have to go through the same procedure as someone from outside?Don’t you have any “special” terms on your contract (thus its renewal), since you already know so much about the job and the EU!!!Can you just say:I want to my contract renewed!!Why would someone sit after 5 years (I heard CA have 5 years’ contracts,but am not sure) on a test answering,…… what is the power of the European Parliament……………………..and stuff like that??
And of course this brings again the question of how a CA can fail such a “simple” test for him/her. I am saying “simple” because after these years of work, these questions must be like going to 1st grade again…
Thanks for your time!
N.
@Andreaa:
But, WHAT HAPPENED AT THE END?
Did you manage to get the interview?
Best,
Oscar
Dear Christos, I am really sorry that you totally missunderstood what I was saying. I am not going there “only” because of the paycheck (maybe there are some that want to volunteer, if this is the case, I believe it is much easier to get there, than to pass all the exams…), I was only asking if I could relay on them for my travel expenses, knowing that it is never certain that you will get “that” specific job, and that maybe one can pass through two or maybe more interviews in order to find the one which suits him, and the DG, the candidate they like more. I have friends who already went for interviews with the EU institutions and they did get that (the travel expenses), but they did the same, asked the same thing as me, and they got the answer quickly…thats why I was wondering.
What I was asking was, yes, for my case, important, and I said I was sorry that I disturbed everybody with that. And if you want some response for your questions (even though I understood the “answer to themselves” part ;)), in my specific case, I really want to be there, to be part of that, I really believe that we should stay united, and many other things…this seems like bla-bla to many, but sincerely not to me, and if you choose not to believe me, it is your problem, not mine. And then, the sacrifices…should I really tell you the sacrifices I am prepared to do, and already taking? You really should know better, I saw you have some experience, that the ones that are not willing to do sacrifices, don’t show up, and thats all.
Once again, sorry for the inconvenience and good luck to you all !
Dear colleagues to be,
I am very sorry to say this, but I am really fed up with the endless discussions about money.
A job in the European Institutions is not about money (even if the pay check is good).
Please allow me to be honest with you, even if I could hurt some feelings. If in an interview I had to choose between a colleague who would be interesting to come to Brussels just for the kill (money), I would be rather prefer to get a laureat with even less skills.
I strongly believe that good people creates good working evironments. I would like to select candidates with whom I could work for the next 20-30 years.
Although I do understand the frustration of some laureates of not knowing what is happening (and this is the fault of the Eu institutions HR departments), I would like to invite everyone to answer themselves the two basic questions (and these are not philosophical questions):
1. For which reason I want to work in the EU Institutions
2 What sacrifies am I prepared to do in order to achieve the above goal?
The glass can be seen as half-full or half-empty?
Which is your attitude?
@BREACH
how did you oral exam go?
Probably you are still in if you get in touch with them.
Stefano
Thanks Stefano, Kostas, I will call them today, at least to find out if I am still on for the interview or not.
@Andreea
If you are really interested, you call them, ask them and try to solve the problem with them. It takes 30 minutes of your time to do it.
Stefano
@Kostas
So why the secrecy? if I can call it like that…I also don’t know if it was about the money, don’t you think? I mean, I was expecting for an email with something they want from me…if they don’t deliver me that, I don’t know :
1. the date of the interview and
2. for which days should I buy the plane ticket (I cannot buy that until I do not have an agreement with them)
The whole thing about this form is really important, because in this one I should say, the day that I come (wich previously had to be accepted by the HR), the hour (in order from them to come and pick me up – they do that to), if there is indeed need of a hotel reservation…things like that…so that is why I am asking myself…is my email lost somewhere? should I ask them? is that going to stress them? is it a thing to do? am I stressing to much :D?
@Andreea
But you WILL get your money back, even if you don’t get the job. I was in Brussels for the interview, I gave them only the flying tickets (it was 220 Euros), and they payed me back (after 2 months) for 420 Euros. So I also got enough money for hotel and expenses.
I don’t know if I get a job from CAST27, but I hope I will get some invitations and have the chance to travel there without any cost for me. I mean, I will get the expenses back, even with a delay.
@Kostas
Yes, I think that you are right, and many people around me told me the same thing…I will not insist on my financial problems, but it is frustrating and also it makes me wonder…”and if”…and if I do not become an EU official? :D…how will I reimburse the money…? It is a retoric question, and I don’t want anybody on this forum to believe that I just like to cry on everybody’s shoulder for my problems…
Anyway, I’ll try to contact them today, see what they are saying…I just hope they are not making a database with people who is insisting on knowing what will they do in order to reach the interview…:)…because in this case, the other emails that I received just asking if I am still interested in passing an interview, might just never come…but I am an optimistic person, so I’ll not give up that easely.
And, btw, in my first email reply I didn’t said anything about the money, just asking what to do next…is the secretary who pointed that they are taking care of the hotel and this is how the discution about that started…because I asked if they also reimburse the travel expenses, and she said, I never said we reimburse the hotel, and about the travel, you will see that in the form you’ll receive…voilÃÂ
I’m writing this down also for the others that may be experiencing the same problem, but that are ashamed they don’t have the money…because I really don’t think that I am the only one concerned.
Thank you everybody !
@Andrea
I guess you are right. You must try to find the money, and then pay them back when you’ll be a EU official. But I truly advice you to talk to them directly, and express your problems. Maybe they find a solution for you.
I’ll try to pull myself up and read all of that paper that dizzy kindly showed us…maybe there is an answer to my question…I already read that you certanely have more chances if you have already some experience with the EU institutions…how can the people from the new states arring can have that? and yes, in the job description I found that they required that you know how to use some of their specific programs…only created for the EU institutions…weird? was I contacted “just in case”? just to fill in the blanks?
So all of this is only for those who can afford to travel est to west, not thinking about the money? it’s kind of sad, if not much…I hope nobody will think that I exagerate if I am thinking of some other kind of discrimination….:(
@Andreea
I don’t intend in disappointing you, but I think you lost your interview! Tell us if you can afford the traveling expenses, waiting to get the money back after maybe some months.
You should try to immediately contact anyone you can from there. The secretary, or the HR. But don’t wait for an e-mail. Make a phone-call. Don’t be afraid!!!
@Stefano
I know, that is what the secretary told me, that is “also” about the reimbursement…but anyway, I was worried, asking myself, maybe I should have pushed a little? maybe they believe that they already sent me the form?but I do not believe this is very good, to push an EU official to reply to your emails…:D..I don’t know…the thing is that she told me about an interview date, the 15, and I didn’t know what to think… I think that the “organizing stuff” and the “communication” is having some difficulties…:(
Dear all.
I think that the hole procedure of CAST27 is not transparent in anyway. Has anyone got any marks, as Jon got at the beginning of this page? No, just a simple pass, or fail. Is anyone going to find out details about his marks? Of course no, EPSO refuses to give the right and wrong answers to any candidate, even though European Ombudsman has demanded to, in the past.
But I don’t really mind if they lowered the base, or the pass mark. If they are going to hire X people, they need something like X+30% successful candidates. Otherwise, they should repeat the hole procedure, and this is not good. I don’t think they did it for the CAs currently under contract. They just need the right amount of pass marks.
@Kostas
The whole story was that I received an email from the HR departement, asking if I was interested in working with that DG, and if yes, if I could be there in 2 days…unfortunately, for personnal reasons, I saw the email after 4 days, so I replied saying this, and also that I was still interested in the interview. I also let them know that I could reach them the next week (first email on tuesday, my reply on saturday).
The next week (meaning last week), I received another email from them, on Tuesday, this time from the head secretary of the unit, who let me know that they are waiting for me on 15 (today), as already established (?!) and that she needed me to fill a form until Friday, and that she was writing to me because the lady from the HR departement was not there that day. I replied saying that I did not received any form (wich was true, I only received the job description), and asking what to do in order to find that form (I was telling myself that maybe I could find that on their site). She immediatelly replied that she only saw that then, and that is ok, that next day the HR lady will send me an email with the form…and that was the last time I received something from them…
So I am torturing myself, asking if maybe I should have done something, but what? Insisting in receiving the email, that I thought it could be treating them as incompetent…what do you think??
@Andreea
Andreea,
if it is just an interview you must wait for an official letter to invite you in Italy (I guess in Ispra or Parma ). You can call, but I guess you will get the answer to wait, the procedure could be moved to another date due to the availability of selection committee. There is the same problem in Spain with ITER.
You do not need to “sign” any agreement, the agreement will be signed as the final phase (after the medical examination is positive). The only thing you should sign is the “so called” Legal Entity Form and Economical Entity Form to have the reimbursement of the travel expenses.
The rest of the forms will come as soon as you have a positive interview and a post is available.
Have a nice day.
Stefano
@Andreea
Typographic mistake: We don’t know the hole story…
@Andreea
Dear Andrea, we don’t know he hole story of your communication with Italy. What they wrote in the 1st letter. If it was clear that you will be invited for an interview, then, I suggest you wait.
@dizzy
Many thanks, this paper is really, trully helpfull for a better understanding of the recruitment process !! and I’m only on page 6 from 27 😀 …
As long as I’m concerned…I still wait for an email with a form to complete, in order to go to that interview in Italy…as long as they are concerned, if they really are, I was supposed to be there today, or maybe later this week…I am waiting for that form for about four days, what shall I do?? Write them and ask them what in the world is going on? I do not know if this is appropriate…Or is this the normal “procedure”, waiting indefinitely, from an email to the next, until we reach an “agreement”? If anybody has the slightest idea, please reply…
Thanks and have a beautifull week, full of…whatever you want, interviews, contracts, email exchange…;)
@Nikoletta
I guess some one could tell you that there is a relevant number of CAs which are needed to support the everyday activities at the EU Commission.
I agree it is ridiculous and it is also unacceptable, but I think someone is considering important all these people, so it is better to put a lower mark instead to have to wait for a “new working EU Commission”. I hope they are only rumours, becaus otherways it is frustrating for all.
Have a nice day.
Stefano
If these rumors are true (and somehow they should be,otherwise they wouldn’t be out there), then I find the procedure not-trasparent and ridiculous. Under which logic this is allowed to happen?
And in this sense, how do we know what they do with the results:if they lower the pass mark and to whom?
Totally unacceptable…
N.
@Caroline
That is interesting, I haven’t heard that. I guess they are allowed to lower the pass mark if they don’t fill enough posts overall, but I have a hard time seeing that they would do that just to satisfy staff currently under contract.
Of course, once the results are out there could be quite some nasty fights, but I think that they have already started.
interesting reading
http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/NISPAcee/UNPAN027526.pdf
I have heard rumours that the reason we have not yet had the RELEX Cast 27 results back is that too many of the current Contract Agents failed and therefore will lose their jobs. Has anyone else heard anything similar? and if so, what will they do? Will they just lower the pass mark? (are they allowed to do that??).
@nikoletta
The test was pretty difficult, even though I work full-time with trade policy (which was the focus of the test). A lot of the questions were statistics, though, for which you had to study the DG Trade website in detail (which I did not). So, in sum, it was a strange experience.
@Maria
Personally, I find it fair if they don’t pass not to have their contracts renewed (I don’t want to be mean!), as this will mean that they don’t have the knowledge to remain agents. I am saying this because I found the questions in the competence test (FG IV Finance/Contracts/Audit Adviser) extremely difficult and somehow as if they were targeted to people ALREADY working in the Delegations. The questions were too specific and for many of them it was practically impossible for a person outside the EU environment to know such technical elements about contracts..or even browse on the Internet for their answers!!Don’t you agree?
How did you find your test?
Nikoletta.
@ Sophie,
It’s important the languages that you put on your CV , so both english and german . I passed the tests in french ( for the same reason as you with german) and I was contacted in enghlish , so don’t worry about .
Hi All!
I also succeeded in CAST 27 – FG II (secretary) and I am on a reserve list for translators, too, but I have no invitations so far.
What do you think, have I a disadvantage because of the fact that I wrote the CAST 27 test in German?
I speak also English, but in German I am more confident and I wanted to be sure that my test results are as good as possible.
My other question: if there are some competitions for contract agents on the site of the agencies, are they new competitions if I understand them correctly? Why the CAST 25 and 27 databases then?
Thank you in advance and good luck for all.
Sophie
@nikoletta
As far as I have understood there are some current contract agents in the delegations who are really worried about the tests (which I can understand, since if they don’t pass their contracts will not be renewed), so there has been quite some fighting, also by the trade unions (see http://www.unionsyndicale.org).
I did FG IV, economic/commercial adviser…
house or appartment in BXL ???
It’s depend , also about the area … the prices could be double on the “good” (nord -esat, east and south-east BXL) areas then the “populars” (nord- west , west and south-west ) more or less
I pay 750 € per month for an appartement 2 bedrooms, one bathroom, mainfloor, with a verry little garden on back, but everybody said to me that it’s verry cheap .
Brugge is not a village but a town , and I think it’s more than 60 km.
take a look by yourself about prices :
http://www.immoweb.be/en/
http://www.vlan.be/en/index.php
and you must know that BXL is much cheapper than Paris, Luxembourg , etc , but more expensive than Crete
Bruges is too far to be a reasonable commute, plus it’s in Flanders which makes prices higher. Flat prices are OK in Brussels – as Dorina says you can get a decent place close to the institutions for about 800 Euro. If you want something cheaper (but more questionable) then go for something in the west of the city (Molenbeek for example) and take the Metro to the institutions… I wouldn’t want to live there particularly though.
You might also look at this – my theory of Brussels rental prices. For more on the economic importance of Brussels try this from the Crooked Timber blog.
We only talk about jobs, but I have a question about life in Brussels. How much does it cost to rent a decent house (not a flat) with 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and a quite big yard? With or without furnitures? In Brussels suburban, or even 30-50 min away by train, in a village like Brugge?
In Greece, Crete, I pay between 600 to 800 Euros, without furnitures.
@Maria
Really?I don’t know anything about it. For which FG and profile you are talking about? It looks that the whole recruitment process will take ages,as we haven’t received any news at all..
For which position did you apply?
Nikoletta.
The EU’s anti-fraud office — it’s tasked with investigating fraud with EU funds or any other activity which adversely affects the financial interests of the EU. :-] Gee… I have been reading EU web pages for weeks now and I feel like I barely touched the surface… wonder what the Selection Board will ask me, I’m sure there’ll be at least one totally factual and obscure question :-]
What is OLAF?
@mik
After you have received the intent letter from the commission it is requested to attend a medical examination which is compulsory.
It is composed of a complete blood exam, urine exam, anamnesys by a MD, chest X ray, electrocardiogram, eye visit (usually outside).
Stefano
@Christos Bezirtzoglou
Christos, thank you vey much!
All the best.
Hi everybody,
I read about medical examinations. Can you tell me what they are? Thank you.
Hello everyone, i am just poking to ask if anyone is planning to sit for the OLAF exams?
@Maria
> So is it advisable to send such a letter?
Yes, do send the thank you letter.