The results of the concours for administrators are now out, and – surprise, surprise – I did not manage to pass. Here’s the extract of the letter:
The selection board for the above competition has now finished marking the pre-selection tests in which you participated. I regret to inform you that although the marks you obtained in these tests were above or equal to the pass mark, you were not amongst the top 630 candidates.
Point B.1 of the competition notice stipulates that only those candidates with the 630 highest marks in the pre-selection tests would be asked to submit a full application with a view to their possible admission to the competition.
Your marks are as follows (1):
Test a): 38.333 /60 (pass mark 30)
Test b): 15.263 /20 (pass mark 10)
Test c): 30.769 /40 (pass mark 20)Total: 84.365/ 120
For your information, the candidates who obtained the 630 highest combined scores had at least 92.611 points.
I would add that the Selection Board’s decision does not preclude you from taking part in any future competitions organised by the European Personnel Selection Office.
It’s beyond me how one can get 15.263 / 20 when there were 40 questions, but anyway, c’est la vie. All the best to all the geeks who know who won the Sakharov prize in the year X or other equally useful everyday facts.
FILE DOWNLOADS
Blog commenter ‘viking’ has made some new test files available for download, and he had also supplied the manual for electronic Reserve Lists. Some additional test files have been provided by Sorina (see comment #1003) – download 342kb, ZIPped. Enjoy!
SOCIAL NETWORKS
If anyone is a member of Facebook there’s the ‘So I won’t be a Commission official’ Facebook Group, and the EU Integration Traveler IQ challenge (you need to add the Traveler IQ Facebook application) – a more fun way to revise for the concours…
NOTE
Due to such an enormous number of comments here I have had to divide the comments function. The latest few hundred comments are below, and all the older comments are archived here. All should work technically now.
and there were only 5 days available in Brussels at the time when I was booking… don’t panic. I think there might be an error in the system as someone said. cause it is not possible that epso run out of dates for thousands of candidates.
To all Sofia-based test takers:
Please be advised that, in case you haven’t booked your admission test date yet, you are strongly recommended to hurry up since the situation with available dates and time slots regarding Sofia test center is really catastrophic!
As of today, Wednesday, 24.03.2010, 10:21 AM Sofia time, there were only 10 dates available – 9 in April (6-9, 12, 16, 19, 21 and 26.04) and 1 in May (10.05) – and very few time slots to choose from!
Hope that was useful,
Detelin
In the meantime I book a date in early April as I had no choice. I think it makes sense to wait though…
@ebatta and ala
I called EPSO about the issue of booking for May. They told me there was an informatic bug and they working on it. So my advice is to wait till it is resolved. Check this afternoon or tomorrow (at least that’s what I am going to do)
@ebatta & ala
the admission tests already start before the time for applications has closed. So I find it quite logical that the dates are assigned on an ongoing basis..
I dont think you should wait with booking though, coz you risk losing your chance to sit the tests
hi ebatta, I also tried to book a date. you are right about may – no dates available! idiotic!
how do you know that they keep the later dates for those who will start booking later? did you call epso? perhaps we can also wait a bit and more dates will be made available?
i forgot to say : in Brussels
is there anybody who tried to book their CBT test today??
May is not available! Apparently EPSO reserved may for the ones who register later. I am super annoyed by this. THis should have been communicated before the application.
It’s not at all clear how past experience will be taken into account. Under the old system there was some small wiggle room in the oral exam, although the problem with that was that there was hardly any room for flexibility – it is more or less like an oral multiple choice exam, with right or wrong answers the board notes down and (I guess) some marks assigned to things like ‘teambuilding skills’.
maybe under the new system the oral stage will just continue on the same approach, assigning a few marks to ‘motivation’ and ‘experience’ either during, or prior to, the oral exam but its hardly a great solution, so yes, not clear to an outsider if/how they can use this info. after all, they are trying to drive down the average age of entrants and accounting for all that inconvenient ‘experience’ is hardly going to help.
the supplement for new arrivals works out at about 1000e a month for those with the household allowance (a bit less for those without) and lasts about 9/10 months.
I was wondering if anyone has any insight as to how long the expatriation supplement lasts for those who have moved country in order to take up a post.
@curious1
you have got the point. – I guess it is just the same form for any kind of competition. In AST3, work experience is required, so they have included it. As for AD5, it is not required, but the form is the same… The big question is – as you have said – is it good to reveal too many information? Are they allowed to use it? What happens if the majority does give extensive info, but I don’t? Will I get in trouble during the AC phase? (Like: “Hey, all others understood it that way, why didn’t you do it? do you have anything to hide??) – or just the opposite? Now one gave any further info, but I did… And they grill you “hey, can’t you read? you were not supposed to give any info on work experience, as it is not required”)
As concerns the motivation page: I also don’t get that. They say the examination board may use it in any phase of the competitoin… I think it is quite strange that they stress that “the examination board will have a look at it”… you usually only say that if you are actually NOT doing that, I think. (or don’t know yourself yet how you are going to deal with that information) As the EU-knowledge test is gone, I just guess that they somehow fear that too many people just sign up, even though they have never really been that much interested in working there, so they have just invented some small barrier for applying… I actually doubt that they are ever gonna get back to it.. but you never know…
I participated last year in an AD5 competition and I can tell you that the professional experience is not taken into account at any stage during the selection procedure. I was also confused by the fact that even the written application form contained information on professional experience. This was confirmed to me by EPSO services:
“Dear candidate,
Further to your request, we inform you that a new letter was sent to you via your EPSO account. According to the Notice of competition, no professional experience is requested and the according paragraph in the form can be ignored. Please note that there is no need either to adapt your application, or to resend it should you have already submitted it. The selection board evaluates only the eligibility criteria at this stage so no supplementary qualifications will not be taken into account.”
@seli
technically, you can put in the date of expected end of study. That would surely be understandable.
In my opinion, the question is how much extra information about self one should provide … and if the Selection Board is allowed to use it when assessing a candidate. Given that all people with a 3-years degree are allowed to participate and should be treated equally, Selection board should decide only based on the exam and not on the CV?
(It is a different situation once a person on the reserve list is being recruited – then all the professional experience, extra education etc would play a role)
@ebatta, seli
I am afraid the lucky candidates going on will not be able to fill a detailed CV later. This was not the case in earlier competitions and it would just mean unnecessary complications for EPSO in the open competition.
Cheers,
I was invited to the next written and oral practical tests in the secretary completion.
One of the documents required as per the completion regulations is a printed Copy of the ON-LINE APPLICATION FORM.
I noticed with great surprise that my PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE RECORD IS NOT VISIBLE, which is inexplicable for me!
When I applied on-line I am sure I did all the steps required, otherwise the system itself would not have allowed me to continue till the end.
Obviously there is an IT issue which is beyond me as candiadte!
I sent a mail to EPSO in this regard, still no response.
Are there other candidates who experienced siilar difficulties?
Does anybody knows, how should I proceed.
– Is there a person in charge to address in cases of corrupted IT data?
– May I submit my CV or detailed professional experience record in addition to the existing copy of the ON-Line Application Form
I will be glad to receive your hints concerning the above.
I think they are just checking eligibility with this application form. If someone manages to be one of the lucky candidates managing it to the second round they will be invited to fill out a detailed CV anyway (hopefully).
It is not even required to fill out the professional experience field since you non is needed..
Hello, anyone has any idea how to enter any ongoing studies / work experience in the current on-line application? One has to enter the end date (which can be “today”, but that just enters the today’s date), and anyway, if one is still studying sth he can’t really write what degree he obtained, when it hasn’t happened yet? Any ideas?
Dear Peter,
(1) Motivation:
Unfortunately, EPSO didn’t specify whether the 4 000 characters limit (with or without spaces, not clear) applies to the motivation page as a whole or to any each of the 4 sections included in it;
(2) Professional experience:
I asked a similar question on the Discussion Board of “EU Careers” (EPSO’s profile in Facebook) and this is what I got: “You should provide all your professional experience and employment details on the form”. However, for unknown reasons, EPSO deleted its reply shortly after posting it.
Greetings,
D.
@pedder
My guess is that
1) it will not be possible to put in more info, full CV etc from the validation to publication of RL. Therefore put in whatever you ever want to be there.
(another thing might be after the concours)
2) the extra info about education, career etc can be used during the assessment center stage.
Detelin:
thanks for sharing these information!! – there are 4 sections on the “motivation page”, however. Do you know if the 4000 characters apply to each section or the whole page?
Furthermore, I am not sure about the professional experience and the education sections. As no professional experience is required for the competition, it is possible to click “I don’t want to give info on my professional experience”. Well, that would of course be easier than filling out everyhting. Would you just click “don’T want to give info”, or fill out everyhting?
As concerns the education section, it is mandatory to list the degree that entitles you to take part in the competition. What about others?
So – I guess that main question is: what do they use these info for? Just to check if you are eligible for the competition? Then it might suffice to fill in some basic info that shows if you are eligible or not. Are applicants going to be able to fill out a full Europass CV later on? (e.g. when invited to the assessment center phase?) If this is supposed to be your full CV, then filling out everyhting might be the better option.
Does anyone know??
Thanks in advance
Peter
@Peregrine
Don’t worry if at the end you are employed at step 1. The difference between step 1 and step 2 is only about 200 euros a month. As for the carreer development:
– in 2 years time you will automatically be moved to step 2
– if in 2 or 3 years time you get promoted to the next grade (and this happens indeed) you will once again get step 1 of the next grade
EPSO/AD/177/10
Dear Gals and Guys,
Some of you may have noticed the following discrepancy:
while the EPSO Online Application Manual encourages applicants to use the full word count when answering the motivation questions in the on-line application forms,
the motivation section of the on-line application form for EPSO/AD/177/10 is actually not restricted by any word limit whatsoever.
I have raised this issue on the Discussion Board of “EU Careers” (EPSO’s profile in Facebook) and here is their response:
“EU Careers
Hi Detelin!
Thank you for bringing that up. We realise that this is a problem and we are dealing with it at the moment. The word limit for the motivation section is 4000 characters. Hope that helps!
Alice (Comms. Team, EU Careers)”
Hope this information was useful!
Best regards,
Detelin 🙂
@labours lost
Do take part, you can only extend your chances and/or learn something new. And the new lists will probably be valid for some time after the old ones expire.
(of course only if you can afford it in terms of time, money, energy, sanity etc)
@labours lost
Take part in the new concours. You should take part everywhere an anywhere you can. Extend your chances. Apply for temporary posts. Do everything if you want in.
AD
I’m on the RL for more than 2 years now. Out of 45 candidates, only 17 have been hired (in merit group 1: 6 out of 13). Yet, EPSO thinks it’s a good idea to launch a new concours in July. Someone told me that I really shouldn’t take part in the new concours, since they will hire from the ‘old’ RL first, but I’m not sure… Does anybody has some ideas on this?
@ David
In this context “retain” means to “hold on to” or “keep”, so I would read that sentence as saying that they want to let you know that your application won’t be kept on file- ie you were not successful. I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news! But better luck next time!
Sorry for the confusion. The above given comment should be signed just by me (Ala). AAA appeared by mistake.
Ala
Dilemma
To have your name on the reserve list or not to have it – this is the question!
Does anyone know? What is the deal with having your name on the reserve list? Candidate may request that their names are not published. But why would one prefer not to publish his/her name? On the other hand, why make your name public? It does not help in the recruitment process, so why not preventing it from becoming public online?
I am seriously wondering what to do. I have several days to inform epso on my decision.
Any advice?
To have your name on the reserve list or not to have it – this is the question!
Does anyone know? What is the deal with having your name on the reserve list? Candidate may request that their names are not published. But why would one prefer not to publish his/her name? On the other hand, why make your name public? It does not help in the recruitment process, so why not preventing it from becoming public online?
I am seriously wondering what to do. I have several days to inform epso on my decision.
Any advice?
Peregrine – if you want we can just invent something for you 😉
I’m afraid that people spend too much time preparing for the concours and not enough time thinking about what happens after they get recruited.
of course there is no skipping of grades. the average time between grades varies and is set out in the 2009 Commission Human Resources Report. Time from AD5 to AD9 would be 10-15 years. AD9 is the lowest recognised management position. Average age of recruitment in the Commission is 34 years old at AD5.
PS Sorry, that may not have been quite clear: I sent all the paperwork for my experience in advance, and then on the day I started I was given the official decision appointing me (the closest you get to a contract), which stated that I was in step 2. I think they specified that the paperwork had to be provided 3 or 4 weeks before I started. I would just make very sure that you are able to provide what they want (and that they will consider your experience relevant), and then I am sure you will be fine – you can ring the recruitment person and check all this.
Peregrine,
Yes, that would make sense then.
As for your next question, you have to realise that the EU institutions work very differently to the outside world! I can only speak for the EP, but I didn’t actually get an official pay until I had been there for 6 weeks. They gave an advance payment (basic salary) in the middle of the first month, but the pay is done a month ahead so it all takes a while to get sorted out. So no rush in that sense! and also there never seems to be any problem with backdating changes. I had to get my place of origin changed, which took a while, but they happily backdated the new amounts even though I had already received a payment according to the old place of origin. The paperwork etc seems like a nightmare (and it’s even worse once you start) but you do get through it all eventually and everything comes right.
I’m still trying to figure out how career progression works 🙂 but no skipping grades, I’m pretty sure of that!
Thanks so much for the replies!
I have compared the staff regulations with Commission decision C(2004)1313, which is clearer on the subject of the length of time that is taken into account. I think the way it works is that a minimum of three years of professional experience will earn an additional 24 months of seniority upon appointment: that is, instead of starting at AD5 step 1, you get to start as AD5 step 2.
@Kiwi: that is reassuring to hear. Can I just check that you did already start at step 2 by the time you arrived (even though they did not tell you beforehand)? I guess I am trying to avoid the risk that they refuse to change the step afterwards, or the rigmarole of backdating my salary if it takes too long… But it also seems as if I have no other options.
By the way, it would be nice to read that there is still some hope of career progression at a sensible pace within the institutions. It was quite disheartening to go through all these posts that say that anyone at HoU and above is essentially parachuted in from outside. And there is no skipping of grades, right? 🙂 (hey, a girl can dream 😉 )
@gian_petr2
they could renew the lists again after 2010 but my impression is they won’t want to do that – they will be pretty happy to get rid of all the people remaining on the old reserve lists…
Further needs of institutions are supposed to be filled with the new reserve lists with a validity of only 1 year … so that either in 1 year you are in, or out ….
Not nice but that’s how it seems to go
Breach,
I read that bit about 24 months around the time of being recruited too, but the EP definitely wanted me to prove that I had 3 years’ experience. I think I had 2 yrs 9 months in a salaried position (which is easy to prove), but the rest was self-employed and I had to provide lots of evidence for it.
I got following reply from CoR:
“Dear Mr X,
In reply to your application for the above-mentioned post, I regret to have to inform you that it has not been retained.”
Any native English speaking person who can explain the word “retained” in this context?
Regards,
David
@curious1
when you say “….. one more year……”… you mean res list will expire end 2010 ? On epso website it says the validity is extended till end 2010, but it is not clear to me if it means they cannot be renewed after that (till now they were renewed year by year)…..
…..also personally, after such an experience with the european recruitment system…waiting and waiting and waiting…., I do not think I have any will to apply to the new ones….
Erm, actually I think it’s 24 months:
Article 32 (8) (69) (96)
An official shall be recruited at the first step in his grade.
The Appointing Authority may allow additional seniority up to a maximum of 24 months to take account of his
professional experience. General implementing provisions shall be adopted to give effect to this Article.
Members of the temporary staff graded in accordance with the grading criteria adopted by the institution shall
retain the seniority in the step acquired in that capacity if they are appointed officials in the same grade
immediately following the period of temporary service.
frontex salaries are lower due to the correction coefficient applied on a compulsory basis to all postings within the EU. If someone was to accept a job at a UK based agency, the salary would be revised upwards.
the correction coefficients are published and should be available with some digging online. there is no correction coefficient for luxembourg (its the same as brussels), which I know annoys a good many people.
Peregrine,
I was able to start at AD5 step 2 because I had more than 3 years’ relevant experience. It has to be 3 years, and they don’t take into account any more than 3 years.
As I recall, I had to provide all the paperwork (mountains of it in my case as I was self-employed) and then wait until I started to confirm which step they were putting me at.
I would check exactly what papers you have to submit, and do that as soon as you can, but don’t expect an answer from them until you start. Do be careful though, as they are extremely vigilant about the dates matching up, so you have to add everything together very carefully and 2 years and 11 months will not be enough!!
Good luck!
Peregrine,
Would you be so kind to share with us how long you had to wait on the reserve list before being contacted?
What about the job they offered? Is it a position for the profile of the open competition you passed?
As waiting on the RL seems endless (and hopeless), any information will be appreciated.
Thanks
corrigendum :
re Peregrine: sorry, I did not realize you talked about the Step within AD grade
re Frontex: actually the position is not CA but TA , grade AD8 , salary 3800 at current exchange rate. Probably due to the coefficient …
Oops, something horrible happened to my previous post (I actually know what it is (a bug) any string you put between less than and greater than is escaped and promptly disappears.
@curious1: CA’s are classified in FG (Function Groups) which do not follow the Officials/TAs AST/AD classification. FG IV being the highest (best paid), but still underpaid compared to even AD5. Also note that postings through-out Europe are subject to the so-called adjustment co-efficient – Brussels and Lux being 1.0 whereas the co-efficient for most Eastern/Central European countries is less than 1.0 (to compensate for purchasing partner
@Peregrine: If we’re talking an AST/AD post if you have more than 1 year of professional experience, you should be classified as AST/AD X, Step 2. The step should be clearly specified in the letter from DG HR (former ADMIN). It’s established based on the staff regulations and your demonstrated professional experience record.
@curious1: CA’s are classified in FG (Function Groups) which do not follow the Officials/TAs AST/AD classification. FG IV being the highest (best paid), but still underpaid compared to even AD5. Also note that postings through-out Europe are subject to the so-called adjustment co-efficient – Brussels and Lux being 1.0 whereas the co-efficient for most Eastern/Central European countries is 1 year of professional experience, in which case you should be classified as AST/AD X, Step 2. The step should be clearly specified in the letter from DG HR (former ADMIN). It’s established based on the staff regulations and your demonstrated professional experience record.
@Peregrine
Congratulations for your job offer!
Actually I think you are hired at the grade for which you did the open competition, not for which you have experience and education. So even if you eg had university degree and work experience and did the AST exam, you would get an AST position regardless of your qualification ….
@Peregrine
they did the same with me, put me into step 1 instead of step 2. And they did not change it later on, they said I accepted the offer, now have to live with it:)
Hello all! I would be very grateful for the advice of those of you who know about AD grade classification. I have been offered a position, but HR didn’t take into account three years of work experience that, I understand, would warrant classification at a higher step.
I called the person who was dealing with this, and she was essentially unwilling to engage with me. She stated that she’d prefer to talk about this when I am already in Brussels, and indicated that the classification can be revised afterwards.
However, if I accept the offer as it stands, does that not bind me to the original classification? It also strikes me as much more reasonable and easy to sort this out now. Do you think it really is ok to leave this until after I report for duty? If not, what can I do given that this person at DG HR is not willing to do her job?
Thanks so much in advance!
I have come across something that amazes me:
AD8 salary in Institutions should be about EUR 5800 BUT an agency, Frontex claims that for an AD8 CA based in Warsaw, the salary should be just about 3800 EUR.
Quite a big difference, any explanations?
@gian_petr2
I am no insider but from what I read at EPSO site, the current reserve lists are being extended for 1 more year and after that will expire. The only consolation to those not recruited, there should be open competitions every year and they claim almost everybody on the new reserve lists will be contacted for a job interview … …..
@ Lori77
It’s both, fluency in mother tongue, but also the ability to draft an essey.
About results, it seems impossible to fix the oral in April. I take part in another BG competition and it’s the same pain – first test a), than b) in due time, than c) …
Count 3 months or at least 2,5 from now on for test c) to complete.